Discussion:
"Operation Finlandia": Swedish invasion of Finland, 1977
(too old to reply)
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-04 09:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Back in 1972, Finnish humorist Arto Paasilinna wrote a book titled
"Operation Finlandia", describing a Swedish invasion of Finland in the
summer of 1977, at the time still near future. The book was not a
particularly serious work, and wasn't intended as such. As a piece of
dark, sometimes even sick humour, it certainly had its merits, and even
though the book is occasionally repetitive and the narrative structure
leaves something to be desired, it still provides some entertainment
even for the reader of today. What's more, in spite of its primary
humoristic value, the book is also interesting as a description of a
future that has now, in the course of the time, become alternate
history. Therefore, discussing Paasilinna's book and the historical
plotline that he presented might be appropriate also in this newsgroup.

In the introduction of his book, Paasilinna explained his motives for
writing his novel, with the following words: "At all times, wars are
waged all around the world. Yet somehow we, people of the Nordic
countries, consider ourselves to be living in the middle of some golden
era of global peace. The wars of today are regional and, thankfully for
us, fought far away in the Third World. With this book, I want to
spread war to the peaceful North. My primary intention is to show that
the propensity for war exists even here, and all that it takes is one
small spark to start the conflagration. I want to make it clear that
there are absolutely no countries and nations in this world that could
not start fighting against each others under suitable conditions".

In this first post, I'll focus on describing these "suitable
conditions" that trigger the Swedish-Finnish conflict in Paasilinna's
book. As the term is expressed on this forum, this post will deal with
his point of divergence and the overture of the main scenario. I'll
cover the story of the war itself in another post.

Paasilinna sets up his scene by relying on two very simple factors; the
rising Finnish immigration to Sweden in the early '70s and the mounting
Swedish economic problems. His story begins in the autumn of 1975, when
Sweden has received 350'000 Finnish immigrants. At the same time, the
Swedish consensus society has drifted to a constant turmoil, and the
economy is plagued by a terminal labour strife. Finally, a general
strike is declared in November, lasting for three weeks. The Swedish
economy grinds to a halt, the government is forced to declare a state
of emergency to secure energy and food supplies for the population, and
clashes between the strikers and the police contribute to the
increasing unrest. Simultaneously, the ordinary Swedish citizens direct
their hostility towards the immigrants, and assign the blame for the
strike on the "agitation of communist Finnish guest workers". The
evening press and popular newspapers provide more fuel for the fire and
stir up the developing Swedish hatred of foreigners, especially Finns.

The radicalization of the Swedish society and the hostility towards the
immigrant population is manifested in the parliamentary elections of
1976, where a recently-established extreme-right-wing party scores over
a fifth of the popular vote. The share of the Social Democrats drops to
27,2%, and the balance within the riksdag swings to the right, with the
new extremist elements controlling the key position. The newly-elected
legislature enacts several measures depriving immigrants of all legal
rights and protection, as well as preventing them from applying Swedish
citizenship. The new laws are presented as a "safeguard against all
foreign intervention in Swedish democracy", legalizing official and
unofficial persecution of all immigrant groups: Finns, Yugoslavs and
Turks.

The Swedish decisions provoke a series of protests from the Finnish
government, but these diplomatic notes are ignored by Stockholm. Soon,
Helsinki has a far more direct cause for concern, as the nationalist
agitation in Sweden causes a sudden increase in the separatist
tendencies in the autonomous province of Åland. On December 6th 1976,
the provincial legislature in Mariehamn openly announces the wish of
the province of Åland to separate from Finland and join Sweden. The
Finnish government declares the manifesto to be null and void, and
dispatches six hundred armed policemen to maintain order in the
islands. By the New Year, Åland has turned into a Scandinavian version
of Northern Ireland.

In March, Finnish guest workers in the iron ore mines of Kiruna in
northern Sweden start another strike, which is brutally supressed by
the Swedish police and military. The arrested strikers are interned at
new concentration facilities founded in southern Sweden.
Simultaneously, over two thousand Swedish paramilitaries cross over the
ice to Åland, smuggling a massive amount of weapons with them; only
six hundred men are captured and interned by the Finnish police forces.
On June 4th 1977, the province of Åland begins a coordinated,
full-scale rebellion against Finland. Twenty Finnish policemen are
killed by the Ålander rebels and their Swedish supporters, two hundred
end up as prisoners, and the rest are evacuated by Finnish gunboats.

The Ålander Rising marks the point of no return. Finland holds Sweden
guilty of instigating the revolt and severes the diplomatic and
commercial ties with Stockholm immediately. Both countries mobilize
their naval and air forces, and the situation on the maritime frontier
grows more and more tense. On July 2nd, during a casual overflight
across the Sea of Åland, one fighter squadron of the Royal Swedish Air
Force strays over the southwestern Finnish mainland and is fired upon
by the local Finnish anti-aircraft batteries. As a retaliation, the
commander of the squadron orders an immediate attack on the nuclear
plant in the Finnish town of Naantali. The surprising air raid destroys
both the plant as well as the nearby oil refineries, and sets the town
ablaze. Over a thousand people perish in the fire.

Stunned by the surprise attack and filled with a desire for revenge,
Finland takes the final step and declares war on Sweden.


[...]


Let's pause for a while right there, and save the story of the war for
a later time. As a description of alternate history, how plausible is
Paasilinna's work so far? Even though it's by no means intended as a
serious presentation, could it be made to function as a believable
description of alternate history?

The idea of a politically radicalized Sweden would obviously need some
work. The electoral defeat of Swedish Social Democrats to a new
promising political force is certainly plausible, and is actually
something that happened even in our timeline. The Swedish parliamentary
elections of 1973 already ended in a draw, with the parties of the Left
and the Right holding an equal amount of seats in the Riksdag, and the
government of Olof Palme managed to extend its tenure only after tough
negotiations. The historical elections of 1976 finally witnessed the
end of the four-decades-long Social Democratic reign and thrusted the
party into opposition for the following six years. The new
non-socialist government coalition was formed by the victorious Centre
Party, which had emerged as the primary challenger of the old
establishment and attracted most of the protest vote.

The fundamental difference to Paasilinna's timeline is, of course, that
the Swedish Centre of the '70s was not an extremist right-wing
movement, and the main protest campaign of the party wasn't directed
against immigrants, but against nuclear power. Still, in retrospect,
the thought of a soaring Swedish xenophobia in the early '70s does not
necessarily seem any more impossible than the increase of ethnic
passions in former Yugoslavia after the late '80s, or the sudden rise
of populist and extreme right-wing movements all across Western Europe
at the turn of the millennium. At the risk of sounding anachronistic,
for a European person who has observed the temporary successes of
people such as Haider, Fortuyn and Le Pen, the idea of a similar
process in Sweden, a country that even in our timeline has become noted
for its youth radicalism and occasional murders of leading politicians,
may appear a lot more convincing than one would wish to admit it to be.

The only real problem would be to explain the rise of these
anti-immigration tendencies a quarter a century ahead of their time.
The historical single-issue populist protest movements in Scandinavia
during the '70s and the '80s were usually directed against other
things, such as high taxes, or, in the case of the Christian protest
movements, against abortion and pornography. Immigration was not yet an
issue that it would later become. What's more, Sweden was the one
Nordic country where these hard-core protest movements _weren't_ able
to score a breakthrough and gain seats in the legislature. In contrast,
in Denmark and, to a lesser extent, in Norway, both the anti-tax as
well as the Christian populist movements did manage to score a part of
the popular vote and win seats in the legislature, while in Finland,
the 1970 elections witnessed the emergence of Veikko Vennamo's
protest-fueled SMP (Rural Party) as the new player on the political
scene. But in Sweden, similar movements were unable to break the
electoral barrier until 1991.

The political radicalization and anti-immigrant agenda could make more
sense in the middle of the economic troubles and labour strife that
Paasilinna has postulated. So, how possible would these be?

Obviously, in our timeline, Sweden _did_ experience economic and
financial problems in the '70s, triggered by the Oil Crisis, an event
which was still waiting one year in the future at the time when
Paasilinna wrote his book. The successive non-socialist Swedish
governments of our timeline were able to curtail the level of
unemployment by massive subsidies to the industry. This created
additional problems in the form of high inflation and rising national
debt, and also made the planned tax cuts an unfeasible proposition.
Still, severe labour conflict didn't take place until 1980, and even
then, Sweden continued to remain as the one European country after
Switzerland with the smallest number of days lost to work stoppages.
Given the historical record, the idea of a national strike paralyzing
the entire Swedish society does not seem all that plausible. Besides,
Paasilinna has made Sweden a full member in the EEC, which should in my
opinion have alleviated the worst economic problems.

However, wouldn't simply saying that "it could not have happened there"
be precisely the Scandinavian self-satisfaction and complacence that
Paasilinna warned about? Who is to say that a more inept economic
policy by the Swedish governments could not have thrusted the country
to a terminal turmoil in the aftermath of the Oil Crisis, never mind
the decades-long traditions of settlement and compromise? Who is to say
that in such a situation, an ensuing labour conflict could not have
assumed violent proportions? When pressed hard enough, a welfare state
based on a consensus society _can_ eventually break and deteriorate to
a level where riots and public violence become commonplace. As a case
in a point, we have the example of the United Kingdom in the '70s and
the '80s.

And in this kind of a situation, why couldn't a nation-wide labour
conflict also trigger a hostile reaction from the right? And wouldn't
it seem at least a marginal possibility that this reaction could
harness additional momentum from the developing xenophobic tendencies,
resulting in the radicalization of the society to the level where even
extremism and authoritarian, oppressive rule would be welcomed by a
nontrivial part of the population?

So, my feeling is that Paasilinna may have inadvertently created a
scenario which might, after some thought, be more believable than he
intended it to be. Even though the process that he described would
require a lot more explanation and detail for the sake of plausibility,
I think he is at least raising an interesting question: what would it
take to destroy a stable, modern European democracy from within? What
would it take to have all the dark sides of the post-war West European
political life that have, from time to time, surfaced in different
parts of this Continent to manifest themselves in one single country,
all at once?

In short, I _think_ that the "Bad Sweden" could perhaps be done as a
believable scenario, even with a point of divergence set in the '70s.
At least I wouldn't completely rule it out as a challenge that can
never be answered. However, my guess is that it would take a longer
period of time than just one year to wreck the Swedish democracy, and I
don't think that it would require the birth of a new extremist
movement; the radicalization of the pre-existing parties would do just
fine. But would this Bad Sweden necessarily be also expansionistic and
raise the question of Åland islands as the national irredenta?

For me, the role of Åland in the story is a good deal more difficult
to accept than the premise of a Bad Sweden. Paasilinna's story relies
on the idea of Ålander separatism, something that I don't find
particularly plausible. To be sure, the province _has_ had a rather
vocal separatist/independence movement even in our timeline, but
somehow, it's hard to think of a scenario where this separatism could
win truly large-scale popular support, let alone be able to rise to the
level of an open, armed rebellion. It's also difficult to see how the
rise of a militant, extremist Sweden could somehow facilitate Ålander
separatism - rather, it seems more likely that this would make the
generally peaceful Ålanders more _reluctant_ to separate from Finland
and join Sweden. The idea of Åland as a willing counterpart to the
1939-Danzig or the 1991-Krajina doesn't really seem believable to me.

Nonetheless... a drastic rise of the pre-existing separatist tendencies
in Åland could make sense if the emergence of a Bad Sweden and the
actions against Finnish immigrants would be matched by a similar
increase of popular hostility towards the Swedish minority in Finland.
And with an immigrant-persecuting Bad Sweden around, it doesn't seem
too impossible that the ever-flickering language strife in Finland
could be re-ignited to the level where it could eventually give birth
to violent ethnic passions, leading to an unofficial popular
persecution and harassment of Swedish-speaking citizens on the Finnish
mainland. This seems a possible reaction if we accept the premise of a
Bad Sweden, and it could also plausibly trigger fear-induced separatism
in Åland.

Assuming that this would also be backed by the secret arrival of
Swedish paramilitaries to the islands, as Paasilinna has described, an
equal scare reaction from Helsinki and the dispatch of an armed police
force to Åland would certainly make sense. Due to the
internationally-imposed demilitarization, sending the military would be
politically unfeasible for Finland, but even a pervasive police
surveillance could create enough antagonisms among the islanders and
nicely complete the vicious circle leading to an actual provincial
rebellion.

So, in order to ignite the Ålander separatism, we would need not only
a Bad Sweden, but also a Naughty Finland, where the Swedish minority is
a target of popular hate, contempt and harassment. And the NF would
certainly seem like a logical consequence of the BS. However,
Paasilinna has regretfully overlooked this possibility, and ignored the
potential for Finnish hatred against the Swedish-speaking minority.
Instead, he has simply presented the Ålander separatism as a direct
result of Bad Sweden, and the very few references that he makes to the
Finnish Swedes in his book would indicate that they manage to live on
their life with no trouble at all during the crisis and the eventual
war. Paasilinna names Erik von Frenckell as the loyal supporter of his
Finnish homeland and Jutta Zilliacus as the head of the peace
opposition, and also mentions the continuing involvement of the Swedish
People's Party in the Finnish politics, apparently without any
controversies or accusations whatsoever. Disappointing.

Of course, the Bad Sweden and the Naughty Finland (we could also name
this "Palme-as-Milosevic-and-Kekkonen-as-Tudjman"-scenario) wouldn't
necessarily have to start a full-scale national conflict over Åland.
Given the North Irish and Yugoslav examples from our timeline, some
kind of a prolonged terror-counterterror-campaign or a regionally
limited proxy shoot-out would seem more realistic possibilities, and
could provide lots of interesting possibilities for the historic '70s
or the '80s.

But, since Paasilinna's idea of a real, honest-to-God, old-fashioned
full frontal war with large-scale military operations on sea, air and
land is more fun, let's just accept his idea of an accidental air raid
leading to a war, explore his scenario and make some comments on its
possibilities. But, before moving on and making a post on that, are
there any questions, comments or any other expressions of interest in
this scenario?





Cheers,
Jalonen



Post Scriptum: the Swedish air raid against the "nuclear plant at
Naantali" is one of the several futuristic plot devices in the book.
There is no nuclear plant at Naantali, but the town was considered as a
possible site for one in the early '70s. In our timeline, the reactor
eventually went to the village of Eurajoki, somewhat further to the
north. Paasilinna has also given the office of the President of Finland
to the Centre leader Johannes Virolainen, who was the heir apparent to
Kekkonen in our timeline. Evidently our humorist underestimated
Kekkonen's personal lust for power and was unable to foresee the
exceptional legislation that skipped the presidential elections of 1974
and extended Kekkonen's reign still further.
Sydney Webb
2005-07-04 23:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Back in 1972, Finnish humorist Arto Paasilinna wrote a book titled
"Operation Finlandia", describing a Swedish invasion of Finland in the
summer of 1977, at the time still near future. The book was not a
particularly serious work, and wasn't intended as such. As a piece of
dark, sometimes even sick humour, it certainly had its merits, and even
though the book is occasionally repetitive and the narrative structure
leaves something to be desired, it still provides some entertainment
even for the reader of today.
Sounds like a Finnish language counterpart of Philip Roth's _Our Gang_.
Good-oh.

[snip]
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Paasilinna sets up his scene by relying on two very simple factors; the
rising Finnish immigration to Sweden in the early '70s and the mounting
Swedish economic problems. His story begins in the autumn of 1975, when
Sweden has received 350'000 Finnish immigrants. At the same time, the
Swedish consensus society has drifted to a constant turmoil, and the
economy is plagued by a terminal labour strife. Finally, a general
strike is declared in November, lasting for three weeks. The Swedish
economy grinds to a halt, the government is forced to declare a state
of emergency to secure energy and food supplies for the population, and
clashes between the strikers and the police contribute to the
increasing unrest. Simultaneously, the ordinary Swedish citizens direct
their hostility towards the immigrants, and assign the blame for the
strike on the "agitation of communist Finnish guest workers". The
evening press and popular newspapers provide more fuel for the fire and
stir up the developing Swedish hatred of foreigners, especially Finns.
Let's just pause and analyse this. When we examine anti-migrant
sentiments we must consider the two types of migrants:

1. Legal migrants. They have come into the country as a result of
government policy. The electorate may resent their representatives'
policy and niggle against the migrants with acts of informal, petty
discrimination. In general, the government will make at least a token
stand in defence of the migrants' rights, if only to stand by their
policy.

[This can change if there is a change of government and the new
government is anti-migrant. But most new governments want to claim some
quasi-continuity with their predecessors - honouring treaties and so on
- and will respect the lawfulness of the laws that allowed the migrants
to arrive.]

2. Illegal migrants. Governments can be quite tough on these, turning
them away, detaining them or in extreme cases shooting them or allowing
their vessels to sink. But a government enacting a violent but lawful
crackdown on illegal migrants must recognise that the legal migrants,
who have followed government rules, are in a separate category.

ISTM that a new, anti-immigrant Swedish government would begin by
turning on one of these groups, not both. For most countries the second
group would be the more promising. However I suspect that in the 1970s
most guest workers to Sweden have come in by legal means.

Yet they are still guests. I'd think that even if elements were seen as
'agitators' or worse the response would not be whole-sale excoriation
but legislation to deport on a case-by-case basis for exhibited 'bad'
behaviour. Any general diminution of rights would be done gradually, by
'salami slicing' or 'frog-boiling'[1] tactics.

[snip]
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Stunned by the surprise attack and filled with a desire for revenge,
Finland takes the final step and declares war on Sweden.
I'm jumping ahead to Part Two here, Jussi. ISTR a mutual defence pact
that plucky little Finland has with her friend to the east. IIRC
Finland has the option of invoking it. Will she?

[snip]
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
In short, I _think_ that the "Bad Sweden" could perhaps be done as a
believable scenario, even with a point of divergence set in the '70s.
At least I wouldn't completely rule it out as a challenge that can
never be answered. However, my guess is that it would take a longer
period of time than just one year to wreck the Swedish democracy,
Agree. It's all too sudden.
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
and I
don't think that it would require the birth of a new extremist
movement; the radicalization of the pre-existing parties would do just
fine. But would this Bad Sweden necessarily be also expansionistic and
raise the question of Åland islands as the national irredenta?
I don't think so. Imagine a Bad Australia - racist, xenophobic, with an
extreme right wing government - as a thought experiment rather than a
realistic WI, obviously. Would Bad Australia necessarily look to the
little islands to her east and seek to liberate her linguistic
compatriots in New Zealand? My guess is no - there are plenty of
bwa-ha-harrific things higher up on the national to-do list.

[snip]
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
So, in order to ignite the Ålander separatism, we would need not only
a Bad Sweden, but also a Naughty Finland, where the Swedish minority is
a target of popular hate, contempt and harassment. And the NF would
certainly seem like a logical consequence of the BS.
Absolutely. When a nation is stressed she exports her stress to her
neighbours and they start behaving erratically, too. (I'm thinking of
Brazil who recently imposed [BoP] on visiting tourists.)

[snip]
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Paasilinna has also given the office of the President of Finland
to the Centre leader Johannes Virolainen, who was the heir apparent to
Kekkonen in our timeline. Evidently our humorist underestimated
Kekkonen's personal lust for power and was unable to foresee the
exceptional legislation that skipped the presidential elections of 1974
and extended Kekkonen's reign still further.
A timely reminder that AH is rarely as implausible or fantastic as OTL.

[1] GoogleGroping on "frog boiling" and this NG shows that it is a
misnomer. Batrachian poaching must be done rapidly or not at all,
apparently.

-Syd
--
"If allohistorians expect to accurately project the thinking of
political strategists, we must learn to avoid the briar patches of
thoughtful analyses."
- Bucky Rea on Disco Era political advisors
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-05 14:14:20 UTC
Permalink
ISTM that a new, anti-immigrant Swedish government would begin by turning
on one of these groups, not both. For most countries the second group
would be the more promising. However I suspect that in the 1970s most
guest workers to Sweden have come in by legal means.
Oh yes, very legal - especially the Finnish immigrants, who become the
target group of the government oppression in this story, were perfectly
legal residents. The Nordic countries had agreed upon cooperation on
free movement of labour and mutual right of residence a long time ago,
already in the Helsinki Agreement of 1962, which was later on
complemented several times. The Treaty on the Common Nordic Labour
Market was eventually signed in 1982, but long before that, the
citizens of Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark and Iceland had been
pretty much free to move, work and live as they pleased, from one
country to another, with little formalities and no restrictions.

Thus, this anti-immigrant policy resulting in the persecution of the
Finnish community would mean that Bad Sweden would do a complete
one-eighty not only in the bilateral relations with Finland, but in the
entire Nordic cooperation.
Yet they are still guests. I'd think that even if elements were seen as
'agitators' or worse the response would not be whole-sale excoriation
but legislation to deport on a case-by-case basis for exhibited 'bad'
behaviour.
Deportations would indeed seem more plausible, especially since we have
seen many examples of such behaviour in Europe in later times. The
Bulgarian action against the Turkish population in the '80s is the
earliest one coming to mind (although the Turks weren't obviously
recent immigrants, but instead an old minority).

Hm. This actually raises a small contradiction in Paasilinna's story.
First, he comes up with an evil, immigrant-persecuting government in
Sweden, but then he fails to notice that the most likely reaction of
this kind of a government would be to simply deport all immigrants
completely and "cleanse Sweden of foreign filth".

... but obviously, this wouldn't do, because for the sake of the story,
he _has_ to allow the immigrants to remain in Sweden, so that the
government could persecute them even further. So, instead of mass
deportation, he presents us with an escalation in half-measures; police
surveillance, harassment, "immigrant passports", drafting the
immigrants to compulsory labour and military service (?), and
eventually, in some cases, internment in concentration camps. Um? If
the point is to simply get rid of all immigrants, why on earth would
the government want to intern them? Unless, of course, they're interned
in preparation for deportation, but well, the book doesn't say that.

Anyhow. I suppose that there's some way to explain this controversy.
Perhaps it's because the government still fears a labour shortage, or
something.
I'm jumping ahead to Part Two here, Jussi. ISTR a mutual defence pact
that plucky little Finland has with her friend to the east. IIRC
Finland has the option of invoking it. Will she?
Oh yes. The manner in which the relevant articles of the Finnish-Soviet
Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance (henceforth
referred to simply by the acronym FCMA, as a handy translation of the
Finnish YYA) are invoked is actually, in my opinion, one of the
best-reasoned and the most plausible parts in Paasilinna's book, as is
his description of the international reaction to the conflict in
general.

By the end of the war, the Soviet Union will also do something even
more... well, proactive, forcing a reaction also from that other
superpower. By the way, even Australia gets to play a very small part
in the story - but more of that later on.




Cheers,
Jalonen
Jukka Raustia
2005-07-05 08:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
But, since Paasilinna's idea of a real, honest-to-God, old-fashioned
full frontal war with large-scale military operations on sea, air and
land is more fun, let's just accept his idea of an accidental air raid
leading to a war, explore his scenario and make some comments on its
possibilities. But, before moving on and making a post on that, are
there any questions, comments or any other expressions of interest in
this scenario?
Well, in order to provide you some ammo for scenario, here's some
OTL stats. I'll try to keep it short as not to flood the NG
with trivia. To begin with, both Finnish and Swedish land forces
were divided to Local Forces and General Forces. General forces
were meant to operate on a local defense/intelligence/
guerrilla warfare network which was created by Local Forces.

Swedish Armed Forces (According to 1971 Finnish intelligence
summary and Zetterberg's studies) Historically numbers went down
somewhat towards 1977, in this OTL I'd assume the force levels would
remain fairly similar to 1971, although with somewhat modernized equipment.

Command organization:
Supreme command, under which there was 6 military provinces (Milo)
Milo's were tasked to command all forces in their area. Invasion
towards Finland would have been led by Milo Ö (SE Finland),
Milo NN (Vaasa) and Milo ÖN (Northern Finland).

Land:

General forces: 20 Infantry Brigades (tractor) 4 Norrland-brigades
(Bandvagn) 6 Armoured Brigades. 10-12 Divisional HQ's (Fördelning,
roman numerals). All forces were well equipped,
could be mobilized inside 1-2 day period and had quite
extensive refresher training.

Local forces: Under each Military Province there were 2-7
Defense Areas (FO), with roughly 10 battalions and some
field artillery for each FO. These were units equipped with
older equipment and presumably with older reservists. Local
forces included Hemvärnet. These forces were meant to stay
put in their area, so for AH the most important thing is
that there would be guerrilla resistance in conquered areas with all
it's usual effects.

Northern Sweden had also some permanet fortifications.

Sea:

In short, overwhelming superiority.

5 Submarine squadrons, each with 3 subs
3 Destroyer squadrons, each with 2 destroyers and a number
of small fast attack crafts
Escort Squadron
Mine Layer Squadron
3 Minesweeping squadrons
Enough coastal defense troops to make any large-scale Finnish landing
implausible.


Air:

Crushing superiority. 21 Air Defense Fighter squadrons,
6 SAM-batteries (Bloodhound), Attack Wing with 10 Attack
Squadrons, 5 Reconnaissance squadrons. Transport Wing
for special forces transport.


Finnish Armed Forces (According to Mobilization Tables, 1973 and
some personal recollections from archival sources. OTL, situation
from 1977 was not significantly different at all)

Command organization:

Supreme Command, under which there was 7 Military provinces
tasked with preparation and conduct of defense in their
area. Navy and Air Force under Supreme Command. Relevant
provinces are Pohjois-Suomen Sotilaslääni (Oulu and Lappi
provinces), Pohjanmaan sl (Old Vaasa province) and
Länsi-Suomen sl (old Turun ja Porin province).

General forces:
1 Armoured Brigade (T-55, BTR-60, D-30, SU-57 for equipment savvies)
5 Infantry Brigades A-level (Tractors)
15 Infantry Brigade B-level (Tractors)
Roughly 8 full Jaeger Brigades (bicycles and trucks).
12 Army Corps headquarters to lead General forces. (under
Military Provinces)

Cutting organizational and equipment corners straight, Armoured Brigade
was equivalent of a Swedish armoured brigade, Maybe half of the Jaeger
Battalions and A-level infantry brigades were roughly equivalent of
Swedish Infantry brigades. They also had periodical refresher
training.

B-level Infantry Brigades and rest of the Jaeger Battalions were roughly
equivalent of Swedish poorer local forces, equipped with WW II equipment
and having virtually no refresher training.

So, to play war with Sweden there would have been about 9 + 1 brigades. With
weapons from Soviet Union, B-level brigades and rest of the Jaeger
Battalions could be improved into better
status, but this would take some time, at least 2-3 months I'd imagine, but
after that they could make a significant addition.

Mobilization time goals were 24 hours for units formed from
peacetime forces, in essence a battalion from each peacetime
brigade and an artillery battalion from each peacetime
artillery regiment. In practice, much shorter times were sought,
often one hour was enough. For whole of general forces time
goal was five days.


Local forces:
Each Military province was divided into 2-5 Military Districts
(Sotilaspiiri). These districts were meant to lead local
forces in their area, also in case of enemy occupation. Readiness
of local forces was quite well developed with a large number
of weapon caches in places like airfields, power plants, city
halls etc. and a large number of refresher exercises.
There were troops to repel takeover of vital installations
(Torjuntapataljoona) and to conduct limited operations and guerrilla
warfare primarily with improved explosion devices and
mines. (Erillispataljoona). There were also guard units
(Vartiokomppania. Each Military district had roughly one Torjuntapataljoona,
one Erillispataljoona and 3-10 Vartiokomppania. Mobilization
goal times were 24-48 hours, although in unwarned exercises a few
hours were often enough.

(Border Guard regions were also local forces, but I've cut corners
in order not to get too much bolt-counting. War with Sweden means
they have virtually no significance)

AH significance of this organization is, that a completely
succesfull surprise takeover wouldn't be possible, and
in enemy occupied territory there would be guerrilla warfare
with all of it's nastiness. I'd imagine in this scenario
the guerrilla operations would be extremely nasty on both sides.

Sea:

Air:
Unfortunately I didn't copy those sides. OTL there was
1 MiG-21D squadron (Rissala) and one 1 Draken squadron (Rovaniemi).
Wartime organization had IIRC, 3 additional squadrons which
could start operations in short notice if additional
equipment was made available. No SAM's at all, although
there was technical preparations made in order to start
units if equipment was available.

Sea:
Same as above. But anyway, air and sea superiority of Sweden
is so crushing that the Navy would be only capable of
making one or two glorious charges. Both Vaasa and Turku
had coastal artillery defense, which could inflict some casualties
upon invader, although forts and guns were quite old. But
I'd imagine Swedes, being experts on subject, could devise
working tactics to cope with them. Special forces assaults
and napalm could do it.

And how would the situation have differed with Naughty Finland
and Bad Sweden? Not very significantly I guess. Most probable
effects from increased defense spending for Finland would
have been purchasing of a third fighter squadron (propping
up fighter strength up to 60 planes), maybe a second
OSA-class missile boat squadron and improving equipment
status of A-class troops, particularly that of Armoured
Brigade. B-class troops would most probably still had to wait.

For Sweden I'd guess with their moving towards superiority
in quality together with BS government would mean keeping
up their forces in 1971 levels and replacing retired
equipment with a similar amount of new equipment.

terveisin,
jukka raustia
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-05 14:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Well, in order to provide you some ammo for scenario, here's some OTL stats.
Thanks, let's take a quick glance at them (I can't help but wonder how
Swedish Armed Forces (According to 1971 Finnish intelligence summary and Zetterberg's
studies) , Land: General forces: 20 Infantry Brigades (tractor) 4 Norrland-brigades
(Bandvagn) 6 Armoured Brigades.
I'm a bit curious about the equipment of the Swedish armoured brigades.
Paasilinna doesn't really pay much attention to the military hardware
in his book and also makes a few obvious mistakes, but he does mention
the Swedish "S-tanks" (which are supposed to be equipped with the best
guns in the world, and specifically designed for wilderness operations
and water crossings) and new IKV 91-tanks (used in anti-tank
operations). Were these kind of machines actually in service in 1977?
Sea: In short, overwhelming superiority. 5 Submarine squadrons, each with 3 subs, 3
Destroyer squadrons, each with 2 destroyers and a number of small fast attack crafts.
Yep, this much I recovered from an article by Bo Hugemark. He mentions
that the Swedish destroyer flotilla of the '60s consisted of one
_Halland_-class destroyer, two smaller and less qualified destroyers
and six torpedo boats. If I've understood the article correctly, by the
'70s, the number of destroyers was reduced as new ones were not
procured, and as a compensation, new missile-equipped fast patrol boats
were added. This seems consistent with the figures that you've given.
Enough coastal defense troops to make any large-scale Finnish landing implausible.
That's not a problem. Let's just say that if Paasilinna has exaggerated
anything in his book, I think it's the size and the capability of the
_Swedish_ navy to mount large-scale amphibious landings against coastal
defences...
Air: Crushing superiority.
This is pretty much self-evident, and is noted several times in the
book. The story presents the Swedish Air Force still flying Viggens,
with the old Drakens in service as auxiliary aircraft.
Finnish Armed Forces: 1 Armoured Brigade (T-55, BTR-60, D-30, SU-57 for equipment savvies)
Ha! I was _sure_ that the mobilization plans of the '70s could not have
included any more than one armoured brigade, yet in the book, Finland
somehow manages to equip two. On the other hand, this could presumably
be explained by the acquisition of new armoured hardware from the
Soviet Union (also described in the book) but somehow, I doubt it. At
best, this one brigade would just be gradually updated as the T-55s
lost or damaged in operations would be gradually replaced by the new
T-72s imported from the USSR.

In Paasilinna's story, the Finnish Army is also operating with the
old-fashioned "Divisions", even though the mobilization plans were made
on the Brigade basis already in the early '70s, as your notes indicate.

[The part on existing Finnish mobilization goals snipped - this is
actually something that gets attention in Paasilinna's book, so more of
that will come later on...]
Air: Unfortunately I didn't copy those sides.
No worries, I have that one pretty much figured out already. By the
way, you forgot the Satakunta Air Command (still based in Pori at the
time) and its glorious fighter squadron, equipped with the ubiquitous
Fouga Magisters :-)

By the way, in Paasilinna's book, the Finnish Air Force is using
"MiG-42"-fighters, but that an obvious typo. In another part of the
story, he mentions MiG-23-fighters, which is probably what he intended
to do also the first time around. Still, even these "Floggers" were
never historically procured by the Finnish Air Force. If Paasilinna had
delayed his war by one year, the Finnish Air Force would have been
using dashing new MiG-21bis-fighters.
No SAM's at all, although there was technical preparations made in order to
start units if equipment was available.
That works. In the book, Finland gets plenty of SAM-hardware from the
Soviet Union. In the book, they're called ZOT-missiles.
Both Vaasa and Turku had coastal artillery defense, which could inflict some
casualties upon invader, although forts and guns were quite old. But I'd
imagine Swedes, being experts on subject, could devise working tactics to cope
with them. Special forces assaults and napalm could do it.
Hm. This means that I may have to revise my assessment on the book on
some parts. Again, more of that later on...

Incidentally, was the Vaasa coastal artillery motorized already in the
late '70s? I remember that at least later on, it was. [Google] Yep, it
was motorized:

http://www.rannikonpuolustaja.fi/rp298/vaarpsto.htm
Now, as one can see in the Internet even today many wackos see Swedish-speaking
Finns as being some sort of subversive Finns who really owe their allegiance
towards Sweden. In a situation in which Sweden would have made a surprise
attack against Finland paranoia and possible local antagonisms combined with
small units of armed men and no police force to curb them might create very,
very nasty results.
Precisely. All it would take is a few young "patriotic" chaps who have
made one last visit to the licquor store on the day before the
mobilization. After getting their guns, they decide to have the last
obligatory drunken night before going off to war. The newly-ignited
ethnic passions and the awareness of the war and the possibility of
their own death slowly combine with the eventual overdoze of beer and
vodka, and suddenly someone of them suggests that it'd be a bully idea
to make a quick courtesy call to the other end of the town. "Remember
that f***ing Swedish-speaking family living in that fancy stone house
near the Chapel Sound? *Hic!*" "Yeah, that f***ing smug engineer and
his family, f**k them." "The daughter was f***ing good-looking, though,
and his wife wasn't bad, either." "*Hic!* Let's go."

... yeah, it shouldn't take too long before these fellows would be
behaving like Serb militias in Racak, or like the HOS in Mostar. At
least in Ostrobothnia, this would be almost guaranteed to happen. This
seems a fairly realistic possibility in the scenario that Paasilinna
has described, but again, for some reason, he has ignored it. Can't
imagine why, given that his book is full of all sorts of other morbid
stuff.

(Or perhaps he did include it, but the publisher snipped it out. There
are limits, after all.)



Cheers,
Jalonen
Jukka Raustia
2005-07-06 07:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
I'm a bit curious about the equipment of the Swedish armoured brigades.
Paasilinna doesn't really pay much attention to the military hardware
in his book and also makes a few obvious mistakes, but he does mention
the Swedish "S-tanks" (which are supposed to be equipped with the best
guns in the world, and specifically designed for wilderness operations
and water crossings) and new IKV 91-tanks (used in anti-tank
operations). Were these kind of machines actually in service in 1977?
Well, let's say if mr. Paasilinna does not give up exact details
for the sake of a good story, then no one does...

IkV-91 was, as it's name Infanteriekanonvagen suggests, an infantry
support tank which was included in infantry and Norrland brigades
on a basis of one company (9-15? pieces?) for every brigade.
S-tanks were quite a special kind of vehicles, as can be seen here:

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/STRV/

and a report on it here

http://www.forsvarsframjandet.org/FMF-98-4/Strv-103.htm

It was never used in combat, which is naturally the best recommendation
any tank can get, but no one can say for sure how would it have
performed. S-tank was the main piece of equipment for armoured brigades
and for a number of separate tank battalions. Separate tank battalions
were presumed to be meant for Milo ÖN.
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
That's not a problem. Let's just say that if Paasilinna has exaggerated
anything in his book, I think it's the size and the capability of the
_Swedish_ navy to mount large-scale amphibious landings against coastal
defences...
We-ell, as far as I can tell, after all Paasilinna's point was to make a
parody of Finnish society, Swedish stereotypes and Lehväslaiho-Tikkanen
books, not an exact military analysis. :)

But one must remember that Swedish Coastal Artillery included a
large portion of amphibious troops which had trained with
very large budget and good personnel resources for last 37 years.
Moreover, they had trained in environments which is identical
to Finnish archipelagos. A landing against Helsinki would be
too far fetched as Helsinki had best defenses.

Moreover, I think in a conflict like that Soviet Union would probably
declare a neutral sea zone east of Hanko. Maybe there could
be some kind of international peace patrol by NATO and
Warsaw Pact ships, ensuring no weapons were smuggled for
combatants. Except those over land borders, of course. Superpowers
were fond of those kind of show of force, after all. It would
also satisfy feelings of good-doers without actual need to
mount an intervention.

After big enough and relatively intact port is taken it is just a matter
of transportation. Finnish armed forces performed a corps-sized amphibious
envelopment at moments notice in 1944, one might recall. Sweden
had big enough merchant navy to support an expeditionary force and
it could probably try to highjack Finnish ships for the job as
well.

( Now, one should remember GTS Finnjet, fastest and most
gas-guzzling car ferry ever, the pride of Finnish merchant marine
and naval industry, made it's maiden journey to Travemünde at
13.5.1977. After West German authorities gave 12 hour ultimatum for
Finnjet to leave, ostensibly to clear up harbour space but really in
order to provide Swedes the ultimate landing ship, the skipper
decided not to surrender. On Travemünde roads there is a Swedish
coast guard vessel preparing to board her as the ship leaves Travemünde
for international waters. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Now,
towards Rostock, towards freedom!" As the empty and new ship
accelerates to full 35kts whisky bottles tremble at Tax-Free shop with
vibration provided by 75 000 hp Rolls Royce engines...
"Sir, I think they're going to ram us!" scared young watchman onboard
HMS Trygghet screamed... )

The key here, is the ability to take a port intact, as Swedes don't
have enough assault transport capability or ability to construct
artificial harbours. One should also remember that demolishing a port
takes time and engineering resources.

A landing at Turku or Vaasa might have some unnecessary risks.
Why not Pori and Rauma instead? First off, both have good and
and relatively large harbours which don't have peacetime
fortifications. Second, Pori has a quite good airfiled which in
fact housed Hämeen Lennosto until 1972. This might be used
as an advanced air base and also as a perfect By 1977 all major
Finnish airfields were fortified against surprise attack, so
that won't work, but Swedes can still take it by, say with
a helicopter-borne battalion transported nearby. There's also
a number of small harbours nearby which can also be used for
small transports.

Pori and Rauma are also north of Turku Archipelago with relatively
scarce islands, which means there's no place for Finnish light
naval forces to hide at all.

Taking Pori and Rauma themselves is quite an achievement as those
rusty towns were bustling industrial centers at 1977, IIRC.
Also, after the landing the possibilities to go forward are
excellent. Terrain around is relatively open which plays perfectly
for Swedish forces as they can better use their overwhelming
firepower and sizable armoured force. As Pori is at crossroads
the defender has to consider possibilities of Swedish operations
against either Tampere or Turku or both. Defender also cannot
completely dismiss notion of Swedes going for Helsinki.

Dispersal of Finnish effort plays for the Swedes as their airpower
can strike defenders reserve units, especially the Armoured Brigade, as it
moves to meet the invader. And if the move on from the beachhead fails, the
open terrain still favours swedes with their better firepower, as Finns
would be unable to lodge them out of their beachhead.

Finally, there's the Yyteri Beach, the China beach of Swedish Expeditionary
Army.

A landing at Vaasa makes no sense at all, I must say. As a main effort
it's too far from Finnish heartland, as an envelopment too far away
and as a faint it's lousy too as Finns can just rely in defense in
depth and retire towards inland and wait for guerrilla operations
to weaken Swedish force. But, if the story demands it...
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
In Paasilinna's story, the Finnish Army is also operating with the
old-fashioned "Divisions", even though the mobilization plans were made
on the Brigade basis already in the early '70s, as your notes indicate.
Yep, divisions were just peacetime organisations in 1951-1966,
post-war mobilization and operational plans from 1951 onwards used Army
Corps and Brigades instead.
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
No worries, I have that one pretty much figured out already. By the
way, you forgot the Satakunta Air Command (still based in Pori at the
time) and its glorious fighter squadron, equipped with the ubiquitous
Fouga Magisters :-)
I did not include suicide planes. They won't have any chances of
success, as Swedish armed forces had quite comprehensive and modern anti-
aircraft coverage by 1977. Even as suicide planes they wouldn't be
very good.
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
By the way, in Paasilinna's book, the Finnish Air Force is using
"MiG-42"-fighters, but that an obvious typo. In another part of the
story, he mentions MiG-23-fighters, which is probably what he intended
to do also the first time around. Still, even these "Floggers" were
never historically procured by the Finnish Air Force. If Paasilinna had
delayed his war by one year, the Finnish Air Force would have been
using dashing new MiG-21bis-fighters.
We-ell, bigger the number, better the MiG, I guess :)

I think at least initially MiG-21bis would be the best choice for
airplane aid as Finnish pilots were already familiar with the older
F-model (not D, as I wrongly put).
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
That works. In the book, Finland gets plenty of SAM-hardware from the
Soviet Union. In the book, they're called ZOT-missiles.
They would be immensely valuable aid. Soviets would probably
first deliver shoulder-fired SA-7 Grail missiles which could at least
limit the amount of Swedish air terror. Next on the list would be
SA-3 for defense of Helsinki (as in OTL 1978 or 1979) and after
maybe 2-3 months SA-6 for protecting the field army.
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Incidentally, was the Vaasa coastal artillery motorized already in the
late '70s? I remember that at least later on, it was. [Google] Yep, it
Vaasa Coastal Artillery Battalion was motorized, even when it was
situated in Helsinki before 1960's. But it was just a peacetime
unit, wartime units had no name, just numbers.

terveisin,
jukka raustia
Michele Armellini
2005-07-06 14:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jukka Raustia
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/STRV/
and a report on it here
http://www.forsvarsframjandet.org/FMF-98-4/Strv-103.htm
It was never used in combat, which is naturally the best recommendation
any tank can get, but no one can say for sure how would it have
performed.
Without looking at the sources you mentioned, one could probably say it
doesn't seem designed with offensive operations in mind, and it would be
used aggressively in this WI war, both in Southern Finland and in
counterattacks in the Northern theater of operations.
mike
2005-07-06 15:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele Armellini
Without looking at the sources you mentioned,
Well, they were both in languages I couldn't read, but there
is a good amount of info out on these.
Post by Michele Armellini
doesn't seem designed with offensive operations in mind, and it
would be used aggressively in this WI war,
There is a few things that are troublesome, no gyros for the Gun,
so firing on the move wouldn't be a good idea, no Active IR/spotlight
like seen on US/USSR Armor of the era, so nightfighting is limited.

couln't find out what kind of rangefinder, the US era armor
had stereo rangefinders, making long range firing more accurate
than what the Soviets had.

May not have indirect fire control like M48-M60 US tanks, very
handy for armor to be able to do fire missions for nearby infantry.

The Commander and Driver/Gunner would seem to be very busy men,
the co-driver/radio operator, the other end of the scale.
Don't think he can even help scan for targets/threats, except to the
rear.

Fighting in Cities/Builtup areas would be more difficult
than a turreted tank.

and three bodies+autoloader in the Tank, having four is better;
that loader is handy for deeds outside the tanks, like maintenence
or pulling Watch.

How 'Comfy' is the ride- ergonomics? One big advantage that
US and UK built armor in the Arab wars was crews were not beatup
riding around in them, and were in better shape/more rested
than the Arab crew in the Soviet built stuff, that was tiring to drive
and cramped.

**
mike
**
Jukka Raustia
2005-07-07 06:46:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
Well, they were both in languages I couldn't read, but there
is a good amount of info out on these.
One link was to an article in Swedish which is titled "Strv-103 - A
Secret Disappointment". In OTL it seemed that Swedes kept older
Centurions in service as well, and moreover equipped their two most
important armoured brigades with them. However, problems with S-tanks really
started when Soviets started to field T-72's, against which S-tanks
were not considered to be of much operational value.

Against Finnish Armour Brigade's T-54's, 55's and Tank Destroyer
Battalion's Charioteers (one battalion) they'd be superior. For rest of the
Finnish army, it's a situation of tanks against no tanks at all.
In OTL Sweden purchased about 290 S-tanks and also had 200 Centurions.

Only Finnish anti-tank weapons were 95mm recoilless rifles
at battalion/brigade level and 55mm recoilless rifles at
company/platoon level. There were a few Vigilant ATGM's, although
I'm not sure whether or not they were operational in 1977 anymore.

To sum up for AH importance implications would be, that at beginning of
the conflict Swedish would have quantitative and qualitative superiority
with their armour, but Soviet aid might make them lose both
on the long run. However, as longer-drawn conflict would probably gain
characteristics of usual proxy fights, USA might respond to Soviet
introduction of T-72's with say, Cobra helicopters.

Michele Armellini said the tank seemed not to be designed with
offensive operations in mind. This is true on strategic level,
in OTL both Swedish and Finnish cold war forces were built up to
resist Soviet invasion. However on operational and tactical level role
of Swedish armoured forces was to make counteroffensives against
Soviet bridgeheads, mainly in Bay of Gävle and Malmö areas.
Incidentally, these areas include a number of excellent ports which
could be used for this hypothetical invasion of Finland.


terveisin,
jukka raustia
Michele Armellini
2005-07-07 07:34:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jukka Raustia
Michele Armellini said the tank seemed not to be designed with
offensive operations in mind. This is true on strategic level,
in OTL both Swedish and Finnish cold war forces were built up to
resist Soviet invasion. However on operational and tactical level role
of Swedish armoured forces was to make counteroffensives against
Soviet bridgeheads, mainly in Bay of Gävle and Malmö areas.
The lack of a turret, lack of of gyroscopics, and presence of a rear-facing
second driver are all pointers that say "I'm a good tank killer from ambush,
but when moving towards the enemy I'll be in trouble".
Jukka Raustia
2005-07-08 10:53:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele Armellini
Post by Jukka Raustia
Michele Armellini said the tank seemed not to be designed with
offensive operations in mind. This is true on strategic level,
The lack of a turret, lack of of gyroscopics, and presence of a rear-facing
second driver are all pointers that say "I'm a good tank killer from ambush,
but when moving towards the enemy I'll be in trouble".
Now, I wonder why one hasn't been used in a Hollywood movie. I've
seen one front of Krigsmuseet in Stockholm, and at least it looks
futuristic...

Yes, the article in Swedish, a critical evaluation of S-tank, is
exactly addressing said tanks shortcomings. What is relevant here,
however, is that the tank was _meant_ to operate in offensive role whatever
it's actual technical shortcomings _were_. History is full of weapon systems
which were innovatively designed to fulfill their roles but failed in actual
combat. Whether or not S-tank would have been one of them, I can't
say for sure as I don't have professional expertise on armoured
vehicles heavier than wheeled APC's. On subject of so special weapon
system as S-tank it's especially difficult since the said tank
had it's good sides too and it was not never used in actual combat.

terveisin,
jukka raustia
mike
2005-07-08 19:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jukka Raustia
Now, I wonder why one hasn't been used in a Hollywood movie. I've
seen one front of Krigsmuseet in Stockholm, and at least it looks
futuristic...
In the too futuristic class, the Army ended the T92 light tank,
even goofier than the S-Tank, with a cleft turret and
MG cupolas for both Commander and Gunner. Used rubber compression
for the suspension, sorta like an early Morris Mini

http://www.eaglehorse.org/4_ftx_gunnery/equipment/m551_sheridan/sheridan2.htm

**
mike
**
Jukka Raustia
2005-07-05 09:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
certainly seem like a logical consequence of the BS. However,
Paasilinna has regretfully overlooked this possibility, and ignored the
potential for Finnish hatred against the Swedish-speaking minority.
Instead, he has simply presented the Ålander separatism as a direct
result of Bad Sweden, and the very few references that he makes to the
Finnish Swedes in his book would indicate that they manage to live on
their life with no trouble at all during the crisis and the eventual
war. Paasilinna names Erik von Frenckell as the loyal supporter of his
As I have explained in another post, a significant element of Finnish
defense of the time were local forces. Many of those units were to be
mobilized immediately, with stores somewhat dispersed already in peacetime.
Especially guard units and guerrilla battalions were to operate in small
patrols. Upon mobilization units of civilian police would not be used
for normal tasks but for guarding key installations, at least
for a few days.

Now, as one can see in the Internet even today many wackos see
Swedish-speaking Finns as being some sort of subversive Finns
who really owe their allegiance towards Sweden. In a situation
in which Sweden would have made a surprise attack against
Finland paranoia and possible local antagonisms combined with small
units of armed men and no police force to curb them might create very,
very nasty results. Naturally mobilization arrangements were not
carved in stone, and one might expect a stern and swift reaction from
many individuals and commanders. But in space of just a few hours
or days lasting damages could be made.

terveisin,
jukka raustia
Michele Armellini
2005-07-05 13:22:12 UTC
Permalink
<***@faf.mil.fi> ha scritto nel messaggio news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

- Interesting reading. Snipping down to a few nitpicks:


Yet somehow we, people of the Nordic
countries, consider ourselves to be living in the middle of some golden
era of global peace. The wars of today are regional and, thankfully for
us, fought far away in the Third World. With this book, I want to
spread war to the peaceful North. My primary intention is to show that
the propensity for war exists even here, and all that it takes is one
small spark to start the conflagration. I want to make it clear that
there are absolutely no countries and nations in this world that could
not start fighting against each others under suitable conditions".

- Well, the stereotype of the neutral, unwarlike Swedes is way modern,
actually.


As a description of alternate history, how plausible is
Paasilinna's work so far? Even though it's by no means intended as a
serious presentation, could it be made to function as a believable
description of alternate history?

- Only with some heavy lifting. Your remarks about a Finland that
antagonizes Sweden in turn is a good starting point. I also agree it takes
way longer than a couple of years.


Given the North Irish and Yugoslav examples from our timeline, some
kind of a prolonged terror-counterterror-campaign or a regionally
limited proxy shoot-out would seem more realistic possibilities, and
could provide lots of interesting possibilities for the historic '70s
or the '80s.

- Bad examples, I think. _If_ Swedes had slaughtered Finns wholesale and
viceversa both in very recent times (as in, during WWII for the Yugoslavs
and in the 1920s for the Irish) and for a few centuries before those recent
times, _that_ would build the kind of solid, traditional ethnic hatred
that's needed in these cases. The situation described so far resembles much
more the other examples you made, Le Pen's and Fortuyn's politics.


But, since Paasilinna's idea of a real, honest-to-God, old-fashioned
full frontal war with large-scale military operations on sea, air and
land is more fun, let's just accept his idea of an accidental air raid
leading to a war, explore his scenario and make some comments on its
possibilities. But, before moving on and making a post on that, are
there any questions, comments or any other expressions of interest in
this scenario?

- Yes. Why shouldn't Finland just scream blue murder, and call in the UN? In
the 1970s we all had much more faith in that kind of thing, and there
actually were sizable peace-keeping forces to deploy. And that's not a
backwater the West can ignore just like any wretched, unfortunate corner of
Africa. Just a very veiled mention by a low-ranking Finnish diplomat about
the possibility of calling in a Soviet stabilization force to help in the
islands would have the Western nations trip over themselves to provide a UN
contigent.
If Sweden's economic situation is as bad as described, even a limited
embargo would have forced them to back down. The islands are already a
settled issue from an international POV, though this situation could well
spark a plebiscite check - but, again, a roughly peaceful situation.
Has Paasilinna addressed such avenues?
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-05 14:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele Armellini
- Bad examples, I think. _If_ Swedes had slaughtered Finns wholesale and
viceversa both in very recent times (as in, during WWII for the Yugoslavs
and in the 1920s for the Irish) and for a few centuries before those recent
times, _that_ would build the kind of solid, traditional ethnic hatred
that's needed in these cases.
Well, even in our timeline, the two neighbouring Nordic countries have
a history of hidden contempt, jealousy, competing senses of superiority
and inferiority and a general mutual uneasiness. Usually these are
supressed by the sense of common interest and friendship, but who's to
say that in a different situation, these emotions could not gradually
escalate to the level of outright hatred and eventually, even violence?

It doesn't seem particularly likely, but as I said, I think that the
author is, in the form of black humour, presenting us with a question
which should make us at least a little bit uneasy. After all, ethnic
hatred doesn't evolve _ex nihilo_, it always requires that first
starting point. Could the above-described feelings be described as the
starting point? In spite of the present-day concord, could it be said
that we actually are _past_ the starting point already, without
realizing it ourselves?
Post by Michele Armellini
- Yes. Why shouldn't Finland just scream blue murder, and call in the UN?
The temporary lack of extensive superpower and UN intervention in the
Swedish-Finnish conflict is explained in the book, and I'll cover it to
a more detail in another post. Basically, at the same time there are
supposed to be other major international crisis situations in other
parts of the globe, temporarily catching the attention of both power
blocs as well as the United Nations.

Eventually, they _do_ intervene, due to a drastic turning-point in the
war... but more of that later on.
Post by Michele Armellini
Just a very veiled mention by a low-ranking Finnish diplomat about the
possibility of calling in a Soviet stabilization force to help in the
islands would have the Western nations trip over themselves to provide a
UN contigent.
Ah, but accepting the arrival of Soviet forces would be something that
Finland would not wish to do in the '70s, because it would potentially
jeopardize the perceived sovereignty of the country (accepting the
Soviet material assistance is another matter, however). As a
consequence, I don't think that using the possibility of calling on
extensive Soviet help even as a threat would be any more politically
feasible for the Finnish government.

The politicians in Helsinki wouldn't want to play in the hands of those
western statesmen who have already accused the country of
"finlandization".
Post by Michele Armellini
If Sweden's economic situation is as bad as described, even a limited
embargo would have forced them to back down.
Well, in Paasilinna's story, Sweden is an EEC member state, and
receives substantial sympathy from the Community. I know, it doesn't
make much sense, and as I've already noted, I have difficulties
accepting these parts of his scenario.
Post by Michele Armellini
The islands are already a settled issue from an international POV, though
this situation could well spark a plebiscite check - but, again, a roughly
peaceful situation. Has Paasilinna addressed such avenues?
Actually, Paasilinna has made _Sweden_ to complain to the United
Nations after Finland has dispatched a police force to maintain order
on the Åland islands. The UN, however, declares that the matter is
strictly a Finnish internal affair, and refrains from interfering in
the issue.




Cheers,
Jalonen
Michele Armellini
2005-07-05 16:31:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele Armellini
- Bad examples, I think. _If_ Swedes had slaughtered Finns wholesale and
viceversa both in very recent times (as in, during WWII for the Yugoslavs
and in the 1920s for the Irish) and for a few centuries before those recent
times, _that_ would build the kind of solid, traditional ethnic hatred
that's needed in these cases.
Well, even in our timeline, the two neighbouring Nordic countries have
a history of hidden contempt, jealousy, competing senses of superiority
and inferiority and a general mutual uneasiness. Usually these are
supressed by the sense of common interest and friendship, but who's to
say that in a different situation, these emotions could not gradually
escalate to the level of outright hatred and eventually, even violence?

- Nobody is to say that. But I'm to say it will take years, and either a
serious ethnic war or at least some specific bloody event to catalyze the
hatred. A Bloody Sunday, an Amritsar, something like that.

In spite of the present-day concord, could it be said
that we actually are _past_ the starting point already, without
realizing it ourselves?

- I don't know...
Post by Michele Armellini
Just a very veiled mention by a low-ranking Finnish diplomat about the
possibility of calling in a Soviet stabilization force to help in the
islands would have the Western nations trip over themselves to provide a
UN contigent.
Ah, but accepting the arrival of Soviet forces would be something that
Finland would not wish to do in the '70s, because it would potentially
jeopardize the perceived sovereignty of the country (accepting the
Soviet material assistance is another matter, however). As a
consequence, I don't think that using the possibility of calling on
extensive Soviet help even as a threat would be any more politically
feasible for the Finnish government.

The politicians in Helsinki wouldn't want to play in the hands of those
western statesmen who have already accused the country of
"finlandization".

- Exactly. I realize the option is unlikely, but exactly because there is
this opinion in the West, the threat is not totally unbelievable in a
worse-better sort of way. The NATO would say OK, it's improbable, but
suppose they do it... where will the Soviets want their base?
Post by Michele Armellini
If Sweden's economic situation is as bad as described, even a limited
embargo would have forced them to back down.
Well, in Paasilinna's story, Sweden is an EEC member state, and
receives substantial sympathy from the Community. I know, it doesn't
make much sense, and as I've already noted, I have difficulties
accepting these parts of his scenario.

- Sympathy for the attacker? Mmm.
Post by Michele Armellini
The islands are already a settled issue from an international POV, though
this situation could well spark a plebiscite check - but, again, a roughly
peaceful situation. Has Paasilinna addressed such avenues?
Actually, Paasilinna has made _Sweden_ to complain to the United
Nations after Finland has dispatched a police force to maintain order
on the Åland islands. The UN, however, declares that the matter is
strictly a Finnish internal affair, and refrains from interfering in
the issue.

- Well, maybe it's plausible, until the Finns don't complain themselves
because of the Swedish "volunteers". _If_ _both_ sides ask an arbitration,
it's extremely unlikely the UN stays out of it.
AJ Denny
2005-07-05 14:55:22 UTC
Permalink
I think the important quesiton for the rest of the world would haven been,
how would the war affect ABBA?
The Horny Goat
2005-07-06 05:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by AJ Denny
I think the important quesiton for the rest of the world would haven been,
how would the war affect ABBA?
Is THAT what the connection between the war between Sweden and Finland
and Australia is? (ABBA were there 2/27 - 3/13/1977 and did Sydney,
Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth)

Because frankly I have a very difficult time figuring out what our
Finnish friends were up to including the Aussies in all this :)
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-06 06:02:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
Is THAT what the connection between the war between Sweden and Finland
and Australia is?
No, there's just supposed to be a major international crisis brewing in
Australia at the time of the conflict, making it impossible for the two
superpowers or the United Nations to intervene in Scandinavia.
Post by The Horny Goat
(ABBA were there 2/27 - 3/13/1977 and did Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne and
Perth)
Well, a tour by ABBA would go a long way explaining the emergence of a
massive international crisis in Australia...



Cheers,
Jalonen
Kaiser Wilhelm III
2005-07-06 06:22:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Post by The Horny Goat
Is THAT what the connection between the war between Sweden and Finland
and Australia is?
No, there's just supposed to be a major international crisis brewing in
Australia at the time of the conflict, making it impossible for the two
superpowers or the United Nations to intervene in Scandinavia.
Post by The Horny Goat
(ABBA were there 2/27 - 3/13/1977 and did Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne and
Perth)
Well, a tour by ABBA would go a long way explaining the emergence of a
massive international crisis in Australia...
One small tour by a band, one giant leap for bad taste?

ObWI: Passed over by Yale, William Jefferson Blythe III takes up rock music
in protest in 1967, forming a band which he calls "the Clintons". Effects
on politics and culture?
The Horny Goat
2005-07-07 02:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Post by The Horny Goat
Is THAT what the connection between the war between Sweden and Finland
and Australia is?
No, there's just supposed to be a major international crisis brewing in
Australia at the time of the conflict, making it impossible for the two
superpowers or the United Nations to intervene in Scandinavia.
OK - so what happened in Australia? Seems to me nothing much of
anything affecting the international community happens in Australia
post WW2 except when someone wants Aussie troops for some
higher-minded purpose. (Korea, VIetnam etc)
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Post by The Horny Goat
(ABBA were there 2/27 - 3/13/1977 and did Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne and
Perth)
Well, a tour by ABBA would go a long way explaining the emergence of a
massive international crisis in Australia...
ROFL!
Errol Cavit
2005-07-07 10:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Post by The Horny Goat
Is THAT what the connection between the war between Sweden and Finland
and Australia is?
No, there's just supposed to be a major international crisis brewing in
Australia at the time of the conflict, making it impossible for the two
superpowers or the United Nations to intervene in Scandinavia.
OK - so what happened in Australia? Seems to me nothing much of
anything affecting the international community happens in Australia
post WW2 except when someone wants Aussie troops for some
higher-minded purpose. (Korea, VIetnam etc)
Issues over East Timor or West Papua could get international attention.
--
Errol Cavit | ***@hotmail.com |"NZ sent its men to support the
Empire in 1914 not so much to create a debt of gratitude or to prove itself
as a nation, but rather to sustain a security system within which it
believed all the country's defence needs could be met at an acceptable
cost." _The Path to Gallipoli_ 1991 Ian McGibbon
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-06 05:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by AJ Denny
I think the important quesiton for the rest of the world would haven been,
how would the war affect ABBA?
Regretfully ABBA doesn't make an appearance in the story. That's very
sad, because it would have had a _lot_ of hilarious potential. However,
one has to bear in mind that the book was written in 1972, and back
then, the group was still known as "Björn & Benny, Agnetha &
Anni-Frid", still waiting for its first success. The acronym ABBA was
adopted in 1973, and the breakthrough came in 1974.

Anyhow. They would have made a perfect propaganda troupe for the
Swedish army... but on the other hand, given the folk-rock background
of Björn and Benny, it'd probably make a lot more sense if they had
adopted an anti-war, pacifist position, and became target of government
persecution, perhaps even imprisonment.

That's a scary thought, actually, having ABBA in the same category with
artists such as Theodorakis or Victor Jara. ABBA with street
credibility. Brrrr.

Siv Malmqvist, another popular Swedish pop songstress, does make a
small appearance in Paasilinna's story. She's mentioned recording a new
hit song, titled "Finland Belongs to Us".




Cheers,
Jalonen
k***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2005-07-06 20:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
By the New Year, Åland has turned into a Scandinavian version
of Northern Ireland.
I don't know enough about the actual history of Aland to make much of
a comment. However the situation in Northern Ireland goes back to 1792
at least, the Irish have long memories. Before the Troubles started
the IRA had spent years setting things up and were posing as
protectors of an oppressed (that's true) Catholic Minority. They were
not pushing union with Eire at the time because the standard of living
was higher for everybody in NI at the time.

Ken Young
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-07 08:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I don't know enough about the actual history of Aland to make much of
a comment. However the situation in Northern Ireland goes back to 1792
at least, the Irish have long memories.
Well, personally I would conclude that the examples of ethnic hatred
from our timeline are seldom based on actual _history_.

More often, they are based on rather peculiar _interpretations_, or
even outright fabrications, of history. Balkans is a class example;
Ireland is another. A majority of people who were massacred at Drogheda
were neither Irish nor Catholic, but what has that ever mattered?

Of course, it still takes a period of decades for this sort of thing to
bear results. Basically, the Ålanders would have to feed themselves
with a steady diet of lies and hate continuously after the autonomy.



Cheers,
Jalonen
David Cantrell
2005-07-10 13:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@faf.mil.fi
Back in 1972, Finnish humorist Arto Paasilinna wrote a book titled
"Operation Finlandia", describing a Swedish invasion of Finland in the
summer of 1977, at the time still near future.
Do you know if it is available in translation?
--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david
j***@faf.mil.fi
2005-07-11 13:48:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Cantrell
Do you know if it is available in translation?
Regretfully, no, it isn't. Unless I'm mistaken, the one and the only
work by Paasilinna that has been translated in English is his "The Year
of the Hare".

Paasilinna is surprisingly popular in France, though (relatively
speaking, that is, for a Finnish author). At least eight of his books
have been translated in French, but sadly, this one is not among them,
either.




Cheers,
Jalonen

Loading...