Discussion:
No WWI, what happens to the German Empire and its monarchies?
(too old to reply)
r***@gmail.com
2018-02-15 09:51:04 UTC
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I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies become like Australian state governors - largely powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments. Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.

Any other ideas?
jerry kraus
2018-02-15 14:19:25 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies become like Australian state governors - largely powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments. Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
How about the EU, or the United States of Europe? I think contemporary Europe is starting to very much resemble what would have happened much earlier to Europe, without WWI. The Germans have finally got it right!
The Old Man
2018-02-15 18:31:43 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies become like Australian state governors - largely powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments. Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
I believe that you'd see the "Royal" or "Noble" families treated differentially, pretty much like now. Because the days of "Devine Right of Kings" is over, I don't see them ruling the roost unless they actually run of office. The family Patri/Matriarch might be the de facto ruler, but have about as much power as Queen Elizabeth.

Regards,
John Braungart
The Horny Goat
2018-02-16 02:57:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:31:43 -0800 (PST), The Old Man
Post by The Old Man
Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies become like Australian state governors - largely powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments. Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
I believe that you'd see the "Royal" or "Noble" families treated differentially, pretty much like now. Because the days of "Devine Right of Kings" is over, I don't see them ruling the roost unless they actually run of office. The family Patri/Matriarch might be the de facto ruler, but have about as much power as Queen Elizabeth.
I would argue the present post-Franco arrangement in Spain is a pretty
good counter-example.
The Old Man
2018-02-16 10:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:31:43 -0800 (PST), The Old Man
Post by The Old Man
Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies become like Australian state governors - largely powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments. Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
I believe that you'd see the "Royal" or "Noble" families treated differentially, pretty much like now. Because the days of "Devine Right of Kings" is over, I don't see them ruling the roost unless they actually run of office. The family Patri/Matriarch might be the de facto ruler, but have about as much power as Queen Elizabeth.
I would argue the present post-Franco arrangement in Spain is a pretty
good counter-example.
So does King Felipe rule or reign? Is he a figurehead or something more? Actually I was thinking more of the Austrian Hapsburgs or the Bavarian House of Wittelsbach. They are deferred to (as much because of their wealth as their political power, especially in OTL for having been deposed), but have no real role in day-to-day life. I believe that this would have been pretty much the way things were.

Regards,
John Braungart
pyotr filipivich
2018-02-17 00:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Old Man
Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:31:43 -0800 (PST), The Old Man
Post by The Old Man
Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies become like Australian state governors - largely powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments. Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
I believe that you'd see the "Royal" or "Noble" families treated differentially, pretty much like now. Because the days of "Devine Right of Kings" is over, I don't see them ruling the roost unless they actually run of office. The family Patri/Matriarch might be the de facto ruler, but have about as much power as Queen Elizabeth.
I would argue the present post-Franco arrangement in Spain is a pretty
good counter-example.
So does King Felipe rule or reign? Is he a figurehead or something more? Actually I was thinking more of the Austrian Hapsburgs or the Bavarian House of Wittelsbach. They are deferred to (as much because of their wealth as their political power, especially in OTL for having been deposed), but have no real role in day-to-day life. I believe that this would have been pretty much the way things were.
I do not know about Felipe. But his Father Juan Carlos, ended a
putsch in '81 by appearing on National TV in uniform, and rejecting
it. All over in 24 hours.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
For Sale: Uncirculated Roman Drachmas, feature Julius Ceaser's Portrait,
several dated 44 BCE. Comes with Certificate of Authenticity.
Rich Rostrom
2018-02-18 00:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies
become like Australian state governors - largely
powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments.
Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
AFAIK, the "regional monarchies" had been stripped
of all real authority when the Empire was formed.
I don't believe, for instance, that the King of
Wurttemberg or the Grand Duke of Hesse had any
function in overseeing the Landtags of their
dominions or in the selection of ministers of the
Land governments.

As to the Hohenzollerns, though, the Emperor
retained many prerogatives of power, including
appointment of the Reichskanzler and other
imperial officials.

There might eventually be constitutional reform
that reduced the Emperor's power and made
Imperial officials responsible to the Reichstag,
as in other parliamentary states.

But it would not happen for many years, barring
the sort of crisis brought on by defeat in WW I.

If there was a Great Depression... that might
lead many ways.

One point: Wilhelm II lived until 1941, and would
never consent to any reduction of his powers. So
the change would either happen after 1941, or
would involve his abdication.
--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.
WolfBear
2018-02-18 01:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Rostrom
Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies
become like Australian state governors - largely
powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments.
Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
AFAIK, the "regional monarchies" had been stripped
of all real authority when the Empire was formed.
I don't believe, for instance, that the King of
Wurttemberg or the Grand Duke of Hesse had any
function in overseeing the Landtags of their
dominions or in the selection of ministers of the
Land governments.
As to the Hohenzollerns, though, the Emperor
retained many prerogatives of power, including
appointment of the Reichskanzler and other
imperial officials.
There might eventually be constitutional reform
that reduced the Emperor's power and made
Imperial officials responsible to the Reichstag,
as in other parliamentary states.
But it would not happen for many years, barring
the sort of crisis brought on by defeat in WW I.
If there was a Great Depression... that might
lead many ways.
One point: Wilhelm II lived until 1941, and would
never consent to any reduction of his powers. So
the change would either happen after 1941, or
would involve his abdication.
--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.
Out of curiosity--would a simple majority in the German Reichstag be enough to force the German Kaiser to accept a reduction in his power?
m***@gmail.com
2018-03-21 07:37:08 UTC
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Post by WolfBear
Out of curiosity--would a simple majority in the German Reichstag be enough to force the German Kaiser to accept a reduction in his power?
No. To amend the German Constitution required the consent of the Bundesrat as well as the Reichstag. In the Bundesrat 14 negative votes sufficed to defeat a motion. Since Prussia had 17 votes, the Kaiser, as King of Prussia, had what was effectively a veto.


Mike Stone, Peterborough, England

Always drink upriver from the herd.

a***@gmail.com
2018-03-17 13:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
I'd presume that that the little sub-monarchies become like Australian state governors - largely powerless rubber stamps of the regional governments. Ditto for the Hohenzollern nationally.
Any other ideas?
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