Discussion:
The fate of the Nazi Party if Hitler gets killed in 1923
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WolfBear
2018-04-01 00:06:00 UTC
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If Adolf Hitler would have gotten killed in 1923, what would the fate of the Nazi Party have been?

Would it have broken up into two or more small factions? Would it have remained united? Who would have emerged as the leader(s) of the Nazi Party or its various factions (if the Nazi Party would have broken up in this TL)? Also, would the Nazi Party or any of its factions have been able to become a potent political force in Germany during the Great Depression in this TL?

Any thoughts on all of this?
The Horny Goat
2018-04-02 00:44:18 UTC
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Post by WolfBear
If Adolf Hitler would have gotten killed in 1923, what would the fate of the Nazi Party have been?
Would it have broken up into two or more small factions? Would it have remained united? Who would have emerged as the leader(s) of the Nazi Party or its various factions (if the Nazi Party would have broken up in this TL)? Also, would the Nazi Party or any of its factions have been able to become a potent political force in Germany during the Great Depression in this TL?
Any thoughts on all of this?
So what are you suggesting? That Ludendorff takes over the NSDAP?
Could be interesting though I don't see him as politically astute
enough to gain power.

With a dead Hitler I see the question of one party or two irrelevant -
it would just fade away into the woodwork like many of the splinter
parties that rose and fell during 1918-25.

What made Hitler and the NSDAP was the Great Depression and 6+ million
unemployed Germans. Dying in 1923 would be too early for the Nazis to
indulge in hagiography with any hope of success. I don't see Goering
or any other creating the *Adolf Hitler Lied the way they did with
Horst Wessel who was never more than an insignificant SA "martyr for
the cause".
s***@yahoo.com
2018-04-08 09:06:58 UTC
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There were serious nazi discussions of having Hitler killed to make a martyr of him. I'm sorry I don't know the year for that.

Nils
The Horny Goat
2018-04-08 14:28:56 UTC
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Post by s***@yahoo.com
There were serious nazi discussions of having Hitler killed to make a martyr of him. I'm sorry I don't know the year for that.
I can't imagine that idea would have been well received by der
Fuehrer...
ronaloooo
2018-04-09 07:30:09 UTC
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https://groups.google.com/d/topic/soc.history.what-if/CWIic_ncdeI
jerry kraus
2018-04-09 18:04:50 UTC
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Post by WolfBear
If Adolf Hitler would have gotten killed in 1923, what would the fate of the Nazi Party have been?
Would it have broken up into two or more small factions? Would it have remained united? Who would have emerged as the leader(s) of the Nazi Party or its various factions (if the Nazi Party would have broken up in this TL)? Also, would the Nazi Party or any of its factions have been able to become a potent political force in Germany during the Great Depression in this TL?
Any thoughts on all of this?
The Nazis would have been similar to Mussolini's fascists, absent Hitler. The Germans wanted a right-leaning autocracy, that's what they were used to. They really didn't particularly care for the liberal Weimar Republic, they weren't Frenchmen.

I suspect Hitler was actually more of a liability than an asset for the Nazis, the German people knew he was mentally unstable, and didn't trust him. He just had so much success, so quickly, they were "swept off their feet", as it were. See the Hitler like interpretation of H.G. Wells story, "the Man who could work miracles", in 1936:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Could_Work_Miracles


A Mussolini like fascist dictatorship would likely have swept Germany, in any case. And, we might not have had any second world war, at all, without Hitler's delusions. And, no rampant antisemitism.
The Old Man
2018-04-09 20:26:45 UTC
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Post by jerry kraus
Post by WolfBear
If Adolf Hitler would have gotten killed in 1923, what would the fate of the Nazi Party have been?
Would it have broken up into two or more small factions? Would it have remained united? Who would have emerged as the leader(s) of the Nazi Party or its various factions (if the Nazi Party would have broken up in this TL)? Also, would the Nazi Party or any of its factions have been able to become a potent political force in Germany during the Great Depression in this TL?
Any thoughts on all of this?
The Nazis would have been similar to Mussolini's fascists, absent Hitler. The Germans wanted a right-leaning autocracy, that's what they were used to. They really didn't particularly care for the liberal Weimar Republic, they weren't Frenchmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Could_Work_Miracles
A Mussolini like fascist dictatorship would likely have swept Germany, in any case. And, we might not have had any second world war, at all, without Hitler's delusions. And, no rampant antisemitism.
You obviously didn't know anyone who lived in Germany during those years. I had both family and friends from "over there" who told me that most of the people absolutely worshiped him. And those that didn't generally kept their mouths shut while looking for a way to get out of town. It was those latter folks that you might be referring to, but they were a minority during the 1930s.And until the Nazis stirred it up there wasn't near as much antisemitism in Germany as there was in some of the other European countries during the teens and twenties.

Regards,
John Braungart
jerry kraus
2018-04-10 13:03:31 UTC
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Post by The Old Man
Post by jerry kraus
Post by WolfBear
If Adolf Hitler would have gotten killed in 1923, what would the fate of the Nazi Party have been?
Would it have broken up into two or more small factions? Would it have remained united? Who would have emerged as the leader(s) of the Nazi Party or its various factions (if the Nazi Party would have broken up in this TL)? Also, would the Nazi Party or any of its factions have been able to become a potent political force in Germany during the Great Depression in this TL?
Any thoughts on all of this?
The Nazis would have been similar to Mussolini's fascists, absent Hitler. The Germans wanted a right-leaning autocracy, that's what they were used to. They really didn't particularly care for the liberal Weimar Republic, they weren't Frenchmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Could_Work_Miracles
A Mussolini like fascist dictatorship would likely have swept Germany, in any case. And, we might not have had any second world war, at all, without Hitler's delusions. And, no rampant antisemitism.
You obviously didn't know anyone who lived in Germany during those years.
Sure I do, John, or, I have, at times, anyway.


I had both family and friends from "over there" who told me that most of the people absolutely worshiped him.

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If that's the case, then, how come Hitler never actually managed to get a majority of seats in the Reichstag? He never did. In his best showing, in the 1933 election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933

Hitler still only got a third of the vote. And, that's despite the obvious incompetence and corruption of his opponents, and the dismal state of the German economy! The German people KNEW Hitler was nuts!

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And those that didn't generally kept their mouths shut while looking for a way to get out of town.
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Now we're getting somewhere! Once Hitler seized total power, of course, and controlled the media and the police, of course everyone worshiped him, they had no choice in the matter! Same with Stalin, Mussolini, Franco etc.

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It was those latter folks that you might be referring to, but they were a minority during the 1930s.

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NO! They were the majority, until Hitler seized power. Germans just don't want to admit that they always knew what a nut Hitler was! They want to scapegoat Hitler, so they won't feel responsible for subsequent events, my friend!

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And until the Nazis stirred it up there wasn't near as much antisemitism in Germany as there was in some of the other European countries during the teens and twenties.


True. Hitler was a very skillful psychological manipulator.
Post by The Old Man
Regards,
John Braungart
The Horny Goat
2018-04-09 22:15:53 UTC
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On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 11:04:50 -0700 (PDT), jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Post by WolfBear
If Adolf Hitler would have gotten killed in 1923, what would the fate of the Nazi Party have been?
Would it have broken up into two or more small factions? Would it have remained united? Who would have emerged as the leader(s) of the Nazi Party or its various factions (if the Nazi Party would have broken up in this TL)? Also, would the Nazi Party or any of its factions have been able to become a potent political force in Germany during the Great Depression in this TL?
Any thoughts on all of this?
The Nazis would have been similar to Mussolini's fascists, absent Hitler. The Germans wanted a right-leaning autocracy, that's what they were used to. They really didn't particularly care for the liberal Weimar Republic, they weren't Frenchmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Could_Work_Miracles
A Mussolini like fascist dictatorship would likely have swept Germany, in any case. And, we might not have had any second world war, at all, without Hitler's delusions. And, no rampant antisemitism.
With that in mind does anybody have a _currently working link_ for the
DBTL? ("Drowned Baby Time Line" - basically a long multipart scenario
where WW1 goes the same as ours except that Adolf Hitler dies either
in childhood or any random time before 11/11/1918)

http://johnnypez9.blogspot.ca/2009/01/drowned-baby-timeline-part-1.html
doesn't seem to have it all.
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