What-if: Graf Spee, property of Uruguay

[a425couple]

I was having a discussion in a thread at a Facebook page dealing with Dreadnoughts, and I figured I would post a question on here - It is pretty interesting.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/399753236783521/permalink/1749990405093124/?comment_id=1750027755089389&reply_comment_id=1750226771736154&notif_id=1522638553382427&notif_t=group_comment&ref=notif
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/399753236783521/permalink/1749990405093124/?comment_id=1750027755089389&reply_comment_id=1750226771736154&notif_id=1522638553382427&notif_t=group_comment&ref=notif>
Let's surmise for a moment that instead her captain ordering the Graf Spee scuttled in 1939, she had ended up interred at Montevideo in Uruguay.
What might have happened to the Pocket Battleship, then? Part of the Uruguayan Navy? Sold to someone else? Part of the Argentine, French, US or UK Navies? Eventually returned to Germany as part of the West German Marine forces? I am guessing that the most immediate possibility would be the Uruguayan Navy taking possession, though Allied Navies would be doing whatever they could to try to get a look aboard (See the earlier post about the UK getting hold of salvage rights during the war, which I believe Keith Willshaw posted about.)
Would it be wrong to assume that, like aircraft that were interred
in countries like Sweden, Switzerland, and some others, which
eventually became their property - Including several B-29s that
were interred in the USSR and eventually taken into the Soviet
Air Forces - that the Graf Spee would become Uruguayan property?

I do not think the above is correct.
Legally, I think interned property was kept until
the end of hostilities, and then given to their
rightful owners, or representatives.

Yes, the USSR kept 3 intact B-29s. But I do not think
they had any legal cover for that act.
They just did it.

The above idea is supported by
http://www.303rdbg.com/intern.html
B-17 interned in Switzerland

or
https://b17flyingfortress.de/en/einsaetze/interniert-in-der-schweiz/
List a bunch, returned after hostilities over.

And one on that site, has an interesting story:
HISTORY OF THE
B-17 #42-5841 / EST NULLA VIA IN VIA VITUTI
Delivered Long Beach 15/3/43; Smoky Hill 26/3/43; force landed Dalhart
with Wilbur Snow 9/4/43; Dow Fd 10/4/43; Assigned 423BS/306BG [RD-Y/I]
Thurleigh 22/4/43; Missing in Action Stuttgart 6/9/43 with Martin
Andrews, Co-pilot: Keith Rich, Navigator: Gordon Bowers, Bombardier: Bob
Huisinger, Flight engineer/top turret gunner: Ralph Biggs, Radio
Operator: Vernon Scott, Ball turret gunner: Guy DiPietro, Waist gunner:
Walt Kozlowski, Waist gunner: Elmo Simpson,Tail gunner: Henry Hucker
(10INT); two engines sustained flak hits, force landed Magadino-Ticino,
Switz. The Swiss air force repaired and test flew aircraft, and handed
it back to US after an engine change at end of war! Missing Air Crew
Report 519. EST NULLA VIA IN VIA VIRTUTI.(There is no way impossible for
courage).
Source: Dave Osborne, B-17 Fortress Master Log*

[a425couple]

Post by a425couple

I was having a discussion in a thread at a Facebook page dealing with
Dreadnoughts, and I figured I would post a question on here - It is
pretty interesting.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/399753236783521/permalink/1749990405093124/?comment_id=1750027755089389&reply_comment_id=1750226771736154&notif_id=1522638553382427&notif_t=group_comment&ref=notif
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/399753236783521/permalink/1749990405093124/?comment_id=1750027755089389&reply_comment_id=1750226771736154&notif_id=1522638553382427&notif_t=group_comment&ref=notif>
Let's surmise for a moment that instead her captain ordering the Graf
Spee scuttled in 1939, she had ended up interred at Montevideo in
Uruguay.
What might have happened to the Pocket Battleship, then? Part of the
Uruguayan Navy? Sold to someone else? Part of the Argentine, French,
US or UK Navies? Eventually returned to Germany as part of the West
German Marine forces? I am guessing that the most immediate
possibility would be the Uruguayan Navy taking possession, though
Allied Navies would be doing whatever they could to try to get a look
aboard (See the earlier post about the UK getting hold of salvage
rights during the war, which I believe Keith Willshaw posted about.)
Would it be wrong to assume that, like aircraft that were interred
in countries like Sweden, Switzerland, and some others, which
eventually became their property - Including several B-29s that
were interred in the USSR and eventually taken into the Soviet
Air Forces - that the Graf Spee would become Uruguayan property?

I do not think the above is correct.
Legally, I think interned property was kept until
the end of hostilities, and then given to their
rightful owners, or representatives.
Yes, the USSR kept 3 intact B-29s.  But I do not think
they had any legal cover for that act.
They just did it.
The above idea is supported by
http://www.303rdbg.com/intern.html
B-17 interned in Switzerland
or
https://b17flyingfortress.de/en/einsaetze/interniert-in-der-schweiz/
List a bunch, returned after hostilities over.
HISTORY OF THE
B-17 #42-5841 / EST NULLA VIA IN VIA VITUTI
Delivered Long Beach 15/3/43; Smoky Hill 26/3/43; force landed Dalhart
with Wilbur Snow 9/4/43; Dow Fd 10/4/43; Assigned 423BS/306BG [RD-Y/I]
Thurleigh 22/4/43; Missing in Action Stuttgart 6/9/43 with Martin
Andrews, Co-pilot: Keith Rich, Navigator: Gordon Bowers, Bombardier: Bob
Huisinger, Flight engineer/top turret gunner: Ralph Biggs, Radio
Walt Kozlowski, Waist gunner: Elmo Simpson,Tail gunner: Henry Hucker
(10INT); two engines sustained flak hits, force landed Magadino-Ticino,
Switz. The Swiss air force repaired and test flew aircraft, and handed
it back to US after an engine change at end of war! Missing Air Crew
Report 519. EST NULLA VIA IN VIA VIRTUTI.(There is no way impossible for
courage).
Source: Dave Osborne, B-17 Fortress Master Log*

Obviously, the above was relevant to Switzerland,
which stayed very carefully as a neutral throughout
WWII.

But you are asking about a ship interned in Montevideo in Uruguay.

And from these below WWI stories we see that when the country
doing the interning enters the war, the men become POWs
and the ships can be seized by the interning country.

( Very interesting story
http://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2014/5/4/i51orc1ljnuabyoll8y09y1c2h0qtj#.WsK1K-jwaUk=
"When the United States entered the war in April 1917, the
German sailors became prisoners of war and were moved to
Fort McPherson in Georgia. The ships were confiscated by
the U.S. and became troop transports during war; Kronprinz
Wilhelm becoming USS Von Steuben and Prinz Eitel Friedrich
becoming USS De Kalb.")

So, when Uruguay declared war on Germany in Feb.15, 1945
they could have seized the Graf Spee.
I'm not sure about between Jan 25, 1942 and Feb.15, 1945.

"On January 25, 1942 Uruguay broke diplomatic relations with Nazi
Germany, as 21 American nations did the same (except for Argentina).[6]
In 1945, it formally joined the Declaration by United Nations; Uruguay
declared war on Germany and Japan on 15 February."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay_during_World_War_II

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Post by a425couple
But you are asking about a ship interned in Montevideo in Uruguay.
And from these below WWI stories we see that when the country
doing the interning enters the war, the men become POWs
and the ships can be seized by the interning country.
( Very interesting story
http://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2014/5/4/i51orc1ljnuabyoll8y09y1c2h0qtj#.WsK1K-jwaUk=
"When the United States entered the war in April 1917, the
German sailors became prisoners of war and were moved to
Fort McPherson in Georgia. The ships were confiscated by
the U.S. and became troop transports during war; Kronprinz
Wilhelm becoming USS Von Steuben and Prinz Eitel Friedrich
becoming USS De Kalb.")
So, when Uruguay declared war on Germany in Feb.15, 1945
they could have seized the Graf Spee.
I'm not sure about between Jan 25, 1942 and Feb.15, 1945.
"On January 25, 1942 Uruguay broke diplomatic relations with Nazi
Germany, as 21 American nations did the same (except for Argentina).[6]
In 1945, it formally joined the Declaration by United Nations; Uruguay
declared war on Germany and Japan on 15 February."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay_during_World_War_II

so, in the end, an interned GS should ends scuttled. more or less the
OTL, minus the radar intelligence salvaged by UK in 1940.

but, the real question should be: in meantime, the presence of the
interned GS will have tied a sizeable RN cruiser force in the falklands
or not ?

as Italian, I guess that a GS interned perhaps should have eased Lionel
Crabb's fight with Their Lordships for exploiting the few and very
precious Italian prizes.

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[Fred J. McCall]

Post by dott.Piergiorgio

Post by a425couple
But you are asking about a ship interned in Montevideo in Uruguay.
And from these below WWI stories we see that when the country
doing the interning enters the war, the men become POWs
and the ships can be seized by the interning country.
( Very interesting story
http://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2014/5/4/i51orc1ljnuabyoll8y09y1c2h0qtj#.WsK1K-jwaUk=
"When the United States entered the war in April 1917, the
German sailors became prisoners of war and were moved to
Fort McPherson in Georgia. The ships were confiscated by
the U.S. and became troop transports during war; Kronprinz
Wilhelm becoming USS Von Steuben and Prinz Eitel Friedrich
becoming USS De Kalb.")
So, when Uruguay declared war on Germany in Feb.15, 1945
they could have seized the Graf Spee.
I'm not sure about between Jan 25, 1942 and Feb.15, 1945.
"On January 25, 1942 Uruguay broke diplomatic relations with Nazi
Germany, as 21 American nations did the same (except for Argentina).[6]
In 1945, it formally joined the Declaration by United Nations; Uruguay
declared war on Germany and Japan on 15 February."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay_during_World_War_II

so, in the end, an interned GS should ends scuttled. more or less the
OTL, minus the radar intelligence salvaged by UK in 1940.
but, the real question should be: in meantime, the presence of the
interned GS will have tied a sizeable RN cruiser force in the falklands
or not ?

I would think not. Once interned, a vessel is not allowed to leave
the neutral port. That's why she tried to run in the first place; to
avoid being interned. Should she be allowed to do so, that could be
construed as an act of war against the other belligerent.

I (vaguely) recall a story about a German aircraft with a bunch of
secret German equipment on it being interned in Switzerland. The
Germans were rather frantic to not let it be examined by anyone. The
airplane 'mysteriously' exploded during the night and the Swiss
received a gift of a squadron of Bf109s from the Reich (which were
subsequently used to shoot down German aircraft infringing on Swiss
airspace).