Discussion:
WI: Great Siege of Malta is Successful
(too old to reply)
jerry kraus
2018-03-13 18:12:36 UTC
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So, suppose the Turks actually succeed in capturing Malta in 1565. What are the long term effects? Obviously, it's a blow to the Hospitalers, but, are they really that important by this stage? Do the Turks make further conquests in Italy at this stage? Can they retake Grenada? If so, will they actually start to compete directly with Spain and Portugal in the New World? If not, can the Turks really regain the advantage, given the immense wealth flowing into Spain and Portugal from Mexico and South America?
jerry kraus
2018-03-13 20:15:42 UTC
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Post by jerry kraus
So, suppose the Turks actually succeed in capturing Malta in 1565. What are the long term effects? Obviously, it's a blow to the Hospitalers, but, are they really that important by this stage? Do the Turks make further conquests in Italy at this stage? Can they retake Grenada? If so, will they actually start to compete directly with Spain and Portugal in the New World? If not, can the Turks really regain the advantage, given the immense wealth flowing into Spain and Portugal from Mexico and South America?
That's Granada, Spain, not Grenada of course, that the Turks need to retake, it they can, of course. Sorry about that.
Pete Barrett
2018-03-13 20:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerry kraus
So, suppose the Turks actually succeed in capturing Malta in 1565.
What are the long term effects? Obviously, it's a blow to the
Hospitalers, but, are they really that important by this stage? Do
the Turks make further conquests in Italy at this stage? Can they
retake Grenada? If so, will they actually start to compete directly
with Spain and Portugal in the New World? If not, can the Turks really
regain the advantage, given the immense wealth flowing into Spain and
Portugal from Mexico and South America?
OTL, the Ottomans held the whole coast of North Africa, at least
formally. Would the possession of Malta really make so much difference as
to allow them to conquer parts of Italy, or Grenada? I doesn't help their
lines of communication to Spain or Italy at all; holding it _does_ remove
a potential Christian threat to North Africa, which _might_ have caused
them to be less aggressive OTL.

It would affect the Maltese, of course - there would be a Turkic element
in the Maltese language, for one thing, and they'd be ruled by the
Ottomans instead of the Knights of St. John, and would presumably become
Muslim in the main. Biggest question is how long can the Ottomans hold on
to Malta; and the next is who gets it when they give up.
--
Pete BARRETT
Alex Milman
2018-03-13 20:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete Barrett
Post by jerry kraus
So, suppose the Turks actually succeed in capturing Malta in 1565.
What are the long term effects? Obviously, it's a blow to the
Hospitalers, but, are they really that important by this stage? Do
the Turks make further conquests in Italy at this stage? Can they
retake Grenada? If so, will they actually start to compete directly
with Spain and Portugal in the New World? If not, can the Turks really
regain the advantage, given the immense wealth flowing into Spain and
Portugal from Mexico and South America?
OTL, the Ottomans held the whole coast of North Africa, at least
formally. Would the possession of Malta really make so much difference as
to allow them to conquer parts of Italy, or Grenada?
In 1565 "Grenada" was a meaningless sound more many decades and conquest of Spain would require an effort that was completely out of the Ottoman realm of a possibility in the terms of the needed numbers, means of their transportation and some other "trifles".

Ditto for Italy, South of which was by that time owned by the Spanish Hapsburgs.
Post by Pete Barrett
I doesn't help their
lines of communication to Spain or Italy at all; holding it _does_ remove
a potential Christian threat to North Africa, which _might_ have caused
them to be less aggressive OTL.
In 1565 Tunis was still under the Spanish control and by that time it was under the Ottoman control for a single year: captured by the Ottomans under Hayreddin Barbarossa in 1534 and the next year captured by Charles V. Not recaptured by the Ottomans until 1569 then taken back by John of Austria in 1573 and re-taken by the Ottomans in 1574. As you can see, the Ottoman control of even that region was shaky, to put it mildly and Christian "threat" was, at least partially, "possession".

Maltese Order had very little impact on the Barbaric coast piracy. Probably ransoming the prisoners was more important than military activities.

If the Ottomans hold the island it would be most probably held until some point in the late XVIII - XIX century when the Ottoman Empire started losing its territories.
Insane Ranter
2018-03-14 03:10:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Milman
Post by Pete Barrett
Post by jerry kraus
So, suppose the Turks actually succeed in capturing Malta in 1565.
What are the long term effects? Obviously, it's a blow to the
Hospitalers, but, are they really that important by this stage? Do
the Turks make further conquests in Italy at this stage? Can they
retake Grenada? If so, will they actually start to compete directly
with Spain and Portugal in the New World? If not, can the Turks really
regain the advantage, given the immense wealth flowing into Spain and
Portugal from Mexico and South America?
OTL, the Ottomans held the whole coast of North Africa, at least
formally. Would the possession of Malta really make so much difference as
to allow them to conquer parts of Italy, or Grenada?
In 1565 "Grenada" was a meaningless sound more many decades and conquest of Spain would require an effort that was completely out of the Ottoman realm of a possibility in the terms of the needed numbers, means of their transportation and some other "trifles".
Ditto for Italy, South of which was by that time owned by the Spanish Hapsburgs.
Post by Pete Barrett
I doesn't help their
lines of communication to Spain or Italy at all; holding it _does_ remove
a potential Christian threat to North Africa, which _might_ have caused
them to be less aggressive OTL.
In 1565 Tunis was still under the Spanish control and by that time it was under the Ottoman control for a single year: captured by the Ottomans under Hayreddin Barbarossa in 1534 and the next year captured by Charles V. Not recaptured by the Ottomans until 1569 then taken back by John of Austria in 1573 and re-taken by the Ottomans in 1574. As you can see, the Ottoman control of even that region was shaky, to put it mildly and Christian "threat" was, at least partially, "possession".
Maltese Order had very little impact on the Barbaric coast piracy. Probably ransoming the prisoners was more important than military activities.
If the Ottomans hold the island it would be most probably held until some point in the late XVIII - XIX century when the Ottoman Empire started losing its territories.
Napoleon takes it along with Egypt?
Alex Milman
2018-03-14 16:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Insane Ranter
Post by Alex Milman
Post by Pete Barrett
Post by jerry kraus
So, suppose the Turks actually succeed in capturing Malta in 1565.
What are the long term effects? Obviously, it's a blow to the
Hospitalers, but, are they really that important by this stage? Do
the Turks make further conquests in Italy at this stage? Can they
retake Grenada? If so, will they actually start to compete directly
with Spain and Portugal in the New World? If not, can the Turks really
regain the advantage, given the immense wealth flowing into Spain and
Portugal from Mexico and South America?
OTL, the Ottomans held the whole coast of North Africa, at least
formally. Would the possession of Malta really make so much difference as
to allow them to conquer parts of Italy, or Grenada?
In 1565 "Grenada" was a meaningless sound more many decades and conquest of Spain would require an effort that was completely out of the Ottoman realm of a possibility in the terms of the needed numbers, means of their transportation and some other "trifles".
Ditto for Italy, South of which was by that time owned by the Spanish Hapsburgs.
Post by Pete Barrett
I doesn't help their
lines of communication to Spain or Italy at all; holding it _does_ remove
a potential Christian threat to North Africa, which _might_ have caused
them to be less aggressive OTL.
In 1565 Tunis was still under the Spanish control and by that time it was under the Ottoman control for a single year: captured by the Ottomans under Hayreddin Barbarossa in 1534 and the next year captured by Charles V. Not recaptured by the Ottomans until 1569 then taken back by John of Austria in 1573 and re-taken by the Ottomans in 1574. As you can see, the Ottoman control of even that region was shaky, to put it mildly and Christian "threat" was, at least partially, "possession".
Maltese Order had very little impact on the Barbaric coast piracy. Probably ransoming the prisoners was more important than military activities.
If the Ottomans hold the island it would be most probably held until some point in the late XVIII - XIX century when the Ottoman Empire started losing its territories.
Napoleon takes it along with Egypt?
If it still belongs to the Ottomans. Then it would be the British turn, as in OTL.
e***@gmail.com
2018-03-17 12:50:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerry kraus
So, suppose the Turks actually succeed in capturing Malta in 1565. What are the long term effects? Obviously, it's a blow to the Hospitalers, but, are they really that important by this stage? Do the Turks make further conquests in Italy at this stage? Can they retake Grenada? If so, will they actually start to compete directly with Spain and Portugal in the New World? If not, can the Turks really regain the advantage, given the immense wealth flowing into Spain and Portugal from Mexico and South America?
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