Bismarck crushed at the Battle of Königgrätz

[SolomonW]

The Battle of Königgrätz was the decisive battle of the Austro-Prussian
War, where Prussia defeated the Austrian Empire.

However, the battle could have gone either way. The Austrians had a
numerical advantage for much of the battle, if the Austrian had been more
coordinated and aggressive, they could have encircled the Prussian armies
and defeated it. If so Prussia would have to make peace.

Such a defeat would possibly have ruined Bismarck career. Certainly, it
would have given Austria an active and dominate part in Germany for many
years, so there is no unification of Germany. In an effort to counter
balance Austria in Germany, France would appear.

The Austria-Hungary Empire would remain an Austrian Empire. Russia would be
concerned about Austria. Both would be competing to try to get their share
of the Turkish Empire. Still if it came to an all-out war, Russia would
probably win, unless the German states go with Austria. If so probably
France would support Austria too.

France would dominate Europe, which would worry Britain.

[Ingo Siekmann]

Hallo,

Post by SolomonW
The Battle of Königgrätz was the decisive battle of the

Austro-Prussian War, where Prussia defeated the Austrian Empire.

Post by SolomonW
However, the battle could have gone either way. The Austrians had a
numerical advantage for much of the battle, if the Austrian had been more
coordinated and aggressive, they could have encircled the Prussian armies
and defeated it. If so Prussia would have to make peace.

.snip

That would have been possible, but I have my doubts that Austria would
have really stayed on top.

It's armies had been downsized due budget cuts, while Prussia had build
up it's strength. They would have not stayed in their barracks for long.

Also, Austria was lagging behind Prussia and the other German States.
Austria was a rural, conservative, maybe even feudal state - compared to
Prussia, which followed a more progressive line and adapted to the new
technologies and industries more easily.
Also, Austria was burdened with the numerous Non-German nations on it's
territory, among them Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, Italians etc. In an age
of growing nationalism, this nations all wanted to be their own masters.

So, even if Austria wins this battle - sooner or later, this various
groups would rise against Vienna, and the Austria-Hungarian Empire
brakes apart. In Germany, Prussia, as the greatest state, will dominate
the Germany, how ever it will looks.

And yes, this will make the French really nervous.

Bye
Ingo

[SolomonW]

Post by Ingo Siekmann
So, even if Austria wins this battle - sooner or later, this various
groups would rise against Vienna, and the Austria-Hungarian Empire
brakes apart. In Germany, Prussia, as the greatest state, will dominate
the Germany, how ever it will looks.
And yes, this will make the French really nervous.

Even a delayed rise of Prussia will chnage much in Europe eg no British
German navy race.

[Ingo Siekmann]

Post by SolomonW
Even a delayed rise of Prussia will chnage much in Europe eg no British
German navy race.

I agree.

Maybe if Austria collapses later, and the Prussians take over Germany -
now with Austria! - it shares borders with new nations (Bohemia,
Hungary) who probably look for a big friend.
A friend like the Russian Empire that can move troops easily through the
(than Russian) Polish Plains.
In this case, a Anglo-German alliance could be a logical choice.

Another possibility: When the Austrian entire collapses, the Poles of
Galicia

Post by SolomonW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Eastern_Europe)

manage to keep an independent Polish Kingdom. The Polish Minorities in
Prussia and Russia want to join it (instant uprisings), Hungary probably
also wants it, just to prevent that her own minorities follow the
example. France - and even some Non-Prussian German States - could
support the Poles, just to annoy Prussia.
In that case, what would England do?

Bye
Ingo

[Don P]

Post by Ingo Siekmann
Another possibility: When the Austrian entire collapses, the Poles of
Galicia

Post by SolomonW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Eastern_Europe)

manage to keep an independent Polish Kingdom. The Polish Minorities in
Prussia and Russia want to join it (instant uprisings), Hungary probably
also wants it, just to prevent that her own minorities follow the
example. France - and even some Non-Prussian German States - could
support the Poles, just to annoy Prussia.
In that case, what would England do?

No particular British policy is imaginable. Britain's few direct
interventions in eastern Europe and the Levant were oriented mainly by
the interest of the Royal Navy in peaceful commerce in the
Mediterranean. Whatever individual politicians thought about sundry
Turkish persecutions or massacres etc., none justified any practical
intervention, and Britain had no policy on such matters as the Dual
Monarchy of Austria & Hungary, self-government for Czechs or Poles etc.

Nineteenth-century imperialists did not associate rule with race (or
religion) or vice versa. This was deemed "progress" since the wars of
religion in the 16th and 17th centuries.