Lone Star Karl: Marx becomes a Texan

[David Tenner]

"Lincoln would have wished to thank British workers, especially those who
supported the North despite the distress caused by the Northern blockade and
the resulting 'cotton famine.' The appearance of the names of several German
revolutionaries would not have surprised him; the defeat of the 1848
revolutions in Europe had swelled the flood of German migrants arriving in
North America. At an earlier date--in 1843--Marx himself had thought of
immigrating to Texas, going so far as to apply to the mayor of Trier, his
birthplace, for an immigration permit.

"What path would world history have taken if Marx had become a Texan? We will
never know..." https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/lincoln-and-marx/

I have a feeling that if Marx doesn't get out of Texas by the time of the
ACW, he may come to a bad end: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueces_massacre

[Rich Rostrom]

Post by David Tenner
"What path would world history have taken if Marx
had become a Texan? We will never know..."
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/lincoln-and-marx/
I have a feeling that if Marx doesn't get out of
Texas by the time of the ACW, he may come to a bad
end: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueces_massacre

If he does go to Texas, what does he do there? I don't
see many job opportunities for radical newspaper editors
in the small Adelsverein settlement.

He probably moves to St. Louis within a year or two,
or maybe Chicago. This would be maybe 1852 or 1853.
Like most of the other German immigrants, he'd join
the Republicans. I suspect that his early extreme
radicalism would be moderated in America; the anti-
slavery struggle would get his attention for several
years.

After the ACW (assuming no butterflies) he would
probably become a Greenback-Labor-Populist agitator.

The most important question is whether he would
return to political-economic theory and produce
anything like _Capital_; and if he did, how life in
America would change his thinking.

[o***@gmail.com]

Terrible things happened in Texas after the Civil War.

The Carpetbaggers took.........

Was there any way of preventing it?

[Paul F Austin]

Post by o***@gmail.com
Terrible things happened in Texas after the Civil War.
The Carpetbaggers took.........
Was there any way of preventing it?

Carpetbaggers get all the blame for what happened economically to the
ex-Confederacy after the end of the ACW.

In reality, the main cause was the collapse of the economy was that the
two main sources of capital stock either disappeared (the value of the
some 5M slaves after emancipation) or decreased greatly (the land when
the valuation of plantation land was adjusted for the absence of servile
labor). The entire basis for the Confederacy as an economic proposition
changed and became radically poorer and it wasn't wealthy to begin with.

Paul

[AO]

In article

Post by Paul F Austin

Post by o***@gmail.com
Terrible things happened in Texas after the Civil War.
The Carpetbaggers took.........
Was there any way of preventing it?

Carpetbaggers get all the blame for what happened economically to the
ex-Confederacy after the end of the ACW.
In reality, the main cause was the collapse of the economy was that the
two main sources of capital stock either disappeared (the value of the
some 5M slaves after emancipation) or decreased greatly (the land when
the valuation of plantation land was adjusted for the absence of servile
labor). The entire basis for the Confederacy as an economic proposition
changed and became radically poorer and it wasn't wealthy to begin with.
Paul

Ok, Paul, thanks and I agree to some extent but some people in the South
are still apparently upset over the civil war and the carpet baggers are
not helping much.

If the carpet baggers had instead been composed of some red cross
mission of mercy , mother teresa/ Florence nightingale figures we would
not be having to defend some exploitative (allegedly maybe) source of
annoyance and harassment.

If I learned anything from being around the enlightened people of the US
it is that they take complaints seriously. We have to reach out and end
this North South divide if possible. This could only mean a good thing.


So to the person who posted about the carpetbaggers, yes Marx would have
tried to oppose any hint of exploitation and the US would have been
better off for it and the world would have been better off for it.

God bless the America.

[Paul F Austin]

Post by AO
In article

Post by Paul F Austin

Post by o***@gmail.com
Terrible things happened in Texas after the Civil War.
The Carpetbaggers took.........
Was there any way of preventing it?

Carpetbaggers get all the blame for what happened economically to the
ex-Confederacy after the end of the ACW.
In reality, the main cause was the collapse of the economy was that the
two main sources of capital stock either disappeared (the value of the
some 5M slaves after emancipation) or decreased greatly (the land when
the valuation of plantation land was adjusted for the absence of servile
labor). The entire basis for the Confederacy as an economic proposition
changed and became radically poorer and it wasn't wealthy to begin with.
Paul

Ok, Paul, thanks and I agree to some extent but some people in the South
are still apparently upset over the civil war and the carpet baggers are
not helping much.
If the carpet baggers had instead been composed of some red cross
mission of mercy , mother teresa/ Florence nightingale figures we would
not be having to defend some exploitative (allegedly maybe) source of
annoyance and harassment.
If I learned anything from being around the enlightened people of the US
it is that they take complaints seriously. We have to reach out and end
this North South divide if possible. This could only mean a good thing.

The Reconstruction era saw a complete overturn of southern society with
yes, a bunch of damn Yankee vultures picking over the remains. There was
also the imposition of Federal force on ex-Confederate states to enforce
the terms of the Fourteenth Amendment, force that caused resonance in
the South during the Civil Rights era. Casual racism, piss-poor
education even for whites and laughably bad for blacks and a cultural
hostility to hard work ("work like a n*gg*r" was a common phrase of
derision) contributed heavily to the continued poverty of the South.

The Lost Cause sentiments that were common when I was a boy have
dwindled a lot. People don't bolt to their feet with their hands over
their hearts when Dixie plays anymore. The South is getting on with
business instead of grieving and that's good. Racist sentiments are
unacceptable and that's even better.

Another reason why the South stayed so poor, so long was (and this is a
secret) it's bloody hot six months out of the year, too hot for office
and factory work without air conditioning.

Paul

[AO]

Post by Paul F Austin
The Lost Cause sentiments that were common when I was a boy have
dwindled a lot. People don't bolt to their feet with their hands over
their hearts when Dixie plays anymore. The South is getting on with
business instead of grieving and that's good. Racist sentiments are
unacceptable and that's even better.

Racism might diminish if the place was as cold as Canada or Scandinavia
or if there was a plenty.
It is likely that a wealthy man in the North is going to be less racist
than a poor man in the equatorial / tropical belt?

Racism perhaps is just like any other human sentiment and it arises from
environmental and financial constraints (amongst other totally
controllable things). It is however incorrect to merely accuse someone
of racism. Though it is understandable if someone who has suffered
unkindness or someone who is observing an unkindness would speak up in
agony from a disturbed righteous spirit.

Nonetheless such accusations ought to be directed more towards a God who
has made an imperfect, fallen world where innocent human beings are
twisted and contorted into fearful, misguided, (sometimes maybe) unkind
folk.

Post by Paul F Austin
Another reason why the South stayed so poor, so long was (and this is
secret) it's bloody hot six months out of the year, too hot for office
and factory work without air conditioning.

We want to give the South cold weather and white christmases so they may
ski and warm each other by the fire side of their modern, perfect,
independent, paid-off manors. We want to give them snow and good solid
winters so they may love one another more.

We dont want to give the South snow because we want to see them work. No
we would much rather have their comely blondes (truly fair folk)
picnicing and partying in some tropical or sub tropical environs. We
would like everyone to live truly without a care in the world like those
independently wealthy people who visit Martha's Vineyard or
Kanenbunkport or the Hamptons or some other "New England Boston Brahmin,
white anglo saxon protestant christian hangout" (not all people are
unburdened but we would like to aspire to the ideal for everyone). But
for the rest who have become swarthy we would like them to be cooled and
made fair again, perhaps in the gentlest, free-est, easiest most
expedited manner.

We would like everyone to have dingnified, honorable independence and
freedom of every sort. A dignified, complete independence of finance and
all good things.

I observe a little discomfort in your otherwise observant and kind tone.
Those who dwell in the North or those who dwell in Canada and higher
(say Northern Europe ) would not harbor any ill will or disdain for the
South. The moment we begin to be insensitive towards those who are
unfortunate is the moment we need a hug, a kiss, a vacation, some
icecream and distance, some rest and relaxation , some good education (
a few good books), the company of some kind lovers, some open rustic ,
plentiful northern meadow filled with flowers and comely lads and
damsels.

[Paul F Austin]

Post by AO

Post by Paul F Austin
The Lost Cause sentiments that were common when I was a boy have
dwindled a lot. People don't bolt to their feet with their hands over
their hearts when Dixie plays anymore. The South is getting on with
business instead of grieving and that's good. Racist sentiments are
unacceptable and that's even better.

Racism might diminish if the place was as cold as Canada or Scandinavia
or if there was a plenty.
It is likely that a wealthy man in the North is going to be less racist
than a poor man in the equatorial / tropical belt?
Racism perhaps is just like any other human sentiment and it arises from
environmental and financial constraints (amongst other totally
controllable things). It is however incorrect to merely accuse someone
of racism. Though it is understandable if someone who has suffered
unkindness or someone who is observing an unkindness would speak up in
agony from a disturbed righteous spirit.
Nonetheless such accusations ought to be directed more towards a God who
has made an imperfect, fallen world where innocent human beings are
twisted and contorted into fearful, misguided, (sometimes maybe) unkind
folk.

Much of the use of "racism" is overblown and certainly wasn't limited to
the South but I'm a Southern man. I grew up in the 1950s and '60s when
Southern public culture changed radically. When I was a kid, casual
verbal assaults were unconscious, now unacceptable. The thing is, it is
almost impossible to get shut of internal attitudes that were formed at
an early age. It's _possible_ but requires really traumatic
circumstances to make it happen. It is relatively easy to change
external behavior on the other hand and that determines the attitudes of
the _next_ generation. My wife's grandfather was a Kluxer and I once
took her aged parents to visit some friends of that generation. Their
casual racism was breath-taking -but- they knew better than to say in
public what they said among intimates.

Changing _public_ culture is a triumph, changing internal culture takes
time (and death). The fallen nature of the world we live in is a given
and caritas towards whoever we find before us helps immensely to make
that world better.

Post by AO

Post by Paul F Austin
Another reason why the South stayed so poor, so long was (and this is
secret) it's bloody hot six months out of the year, too hot for office
and factory work without air conditioning.

We want to give the South cold weather and white christmases so they may
ski and warm each other by the fire side of their modern, perfect,
independent, paid-off manors. We want to give them snow and good solid
winters so they may love one another more.

No snow for me, I can live without that kind of hardihood. Floridians
start whining about the cold when the temperature gets below 50F. My
Lovely Bride is scarcely willing to poke her nose outside if it's that
cold. Why, I just got back from my bike ride and it was _cold_, 60F. I
actually had to put on a sweater at the start.

Cheap transportation has revolutionized American perceptions of place
and culture. When I was a kid, _no one_ I knew went on skiing vacations,
now it's very common. I don't play in snow but I do travel to the
(almost) frozen north to take pictures of Bald Eagles refugee from
Alaska in December. I also see places earlier in the cultural transition
to having common encounters with strangers from other cultures. Florida
long ago grew used to large number of strangers and the local culture
deals well with them. I go to Washington State and in rural areas away
from Seattle, they are _not_ used to People Not From Here and view them
with considerable suspicion, suspicion that I recognized from small
Georgia towns in the 1950s.


Paul

[AO]

Much of the use of "racism" is overblown and certainly wasn'tlimitedto
the South but I'm a Southern man.

I personally have found southerners to be just hospitable and kind and
loving and nice. First week in the south and two of the comeliest and
fairest damsels invited me to drink beer on their porch. Unfortuantely I
was not in the position to indulge them beyond sitting and glaring with
anxiety but I often think fondly over how loving these people are.

Unusually so because their environment should not permit them to be so
kind but it is odd that the poor are expected to be more virtuous than
their poverty permits them. It is understandable that they may be
racists because their hot and hostile environs creates racial disparity
but they are also stereotyped and accused of racism most often.

We do not expect the most progressive and most generous ideas to emanate
from a people who are beleaguered by a hostile and hot climate but
amazingly I have found that the Southerners defy that description
(atleast the people of Texas and N. Carolina and Florida and TN and Va
and W. Va and Miss...; these are the southerners I have run into
atleast). I don't see much poverty in any of those places (atleast not
the kind I have seen in the developing world) but some parts may be
relatively disadvantaged.

My wife's grandfather was a Kluxer and I once
took her aged parents to visit some friends of that generation. Their
casual racism was breath-taking -but- they knew better than to say in
public what they said among intimates.

That sounds more adorable than it probably is. I have never been in such
a situation but it is a bond that people may share perhaps. Although it
is a very impious and incorrect bond. It would be better if people were
not twisted so but such a phenomenon exists due to inequity (generations
of it) both social and climactic. That is why you mentioned the warm
weather of the South and the deletrious effects of such a weather.

Changing _public_ culture is a triumph, changing internal culturetakes
time (and death). The fallen nature of the world we live in is a given
and caritas towards whoever we find before us helps immensely to make
that world better.

It might take time but not necessarily "de_th". Please Sir the d word is
so archaic and utterly not needed. We love everyone particularly those
who may have been fallen. To wish anything worse on the fallen is just
cruel and a sign of our own flaws. I personally know people who have
changed in many ways through love and the correct environment, freedom ,
education and tender kindness.

It is very amazing for me since I am perhaps incapable of such a great
deal of love as I have been most forunate received.

No snow for me, I can live without that kind of hardihood. Floridians
start whining about the cold when the temperature gets below 50F.

That is very unfortunate but we wish all comfort and convenience and the
best. A lot of people in hotter drier climes (as in the deserts) would
love to have snow and colder climes even if it is for a day.

to having common encounters with strangers from other cultures.Florida
long ago grew used to large number of strangers and the local culture
deals well with them. I go to Washington State and in rural areas away
from Seattle, they are _not_ used to People Not From Here and viewthem
with considerable suspicion, suspicion that I recognized from small
Georgia towns in the 1950s.

I read about Florida and the Cuban situation (besides my memories of
Disney World etc.). We wish them assimilation and pray that all are
become as comely and fair as Albion.

We wish all the best for everyone not just the people of the South .
Apologies if it came across as otherwise. Everyone deserves : "snow and
white christmases so they may ski and warm each other by the fire side
of their modern, perfect, independent, paid-off manors. We want to give
everyone snow and good solid winters so they may love one another more."

It what makes us fair and European (or of European extraction) but for
those who are already fair and prefer warm weather may all be well too.