Lights, Camera, Abduction!

[David Tenner]

AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK would
do decades later to Shin Sang-ok and Choi Eun-hee:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee

(She might be vulnerable to an attempt to get her to stay in the USSR both
because she was already starting to drink more heavily, and also because her
and Fairbanks' good friend Charlie Chaplin would have told her what a great
place it was...)

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:03:56 -0500, David Tenner

Post by David Tenner
AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK would
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee
(She might be vulnerable to an attempt to get her to stay in the USSR both
because she was already starting to drink more heavily, and also because her
and Fairbanks' good friend Charlie Chaplin would have told her what a great
place it was...)

Did any major Hollywood star actually visit the Soviet Union in the
1920s?

Chaplin would be the obvious name but I don't think he did.

[Rich Rostrom]

Post by The Horny Goat
Did any major Hollywood star actually visit the
Soviet Union in the 1920s?

Pickford and Fairbanks did; that was the point of
the link to the Soviet film, which included a
cameo by them (shot during their visit in 1927).

[Alex Milman]

Post by David Tenner
AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK would
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee
(She might be vulnerable to an attempt to get her to stay in the USSR both
because she was already starting to drink more heavily, and also because her
and Fairbanks' good friend Charlie Chaplin would have told her what a great
place it was...)

But what would be the point? On her side an easily available booze could be a consideration but what gain for the Soviets?

[David Tenner]

Post by Alex Milman

Post by David Tenner
AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee
(She might be vulnerable to an attempt to get her to stay in the USSR
both because she was already starting to drink more heavily, and also
because her and Fairbanks' good friend Charlie Chaplin would have told
her what a great place it was...)

But what would be the point? On her side an easily available booze could
be a consideration but what gain for the Soviets?

Well, assuming it could plausibly be portrayed as a voluntary defection, I
would think that America's Sweetheart embracing the Land of the Soviets would
be something of a propaganda coup...

[Alex Milman]

Post by David Tenner

Post by Alex Milman

Post by David Tenner
AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee
(She might be vulnerable to an attempt to get her to stay in the USSR
both because she was already starting to drink more heavily, and also
because her and Fairbanks' good friend Charlie Chaplin would have told
her what a great place it was...)

But what would be the point? On her side an easily available booze could
be a consideration but what gain for the Soviets?

Well, assuming it could plausibly be portrayed as a voluntary defection, I
would think that America's Sweetheart embracing the Land of the Soviets would
be something of a propaganda coup...

Not necessarily (with the suspicions of abduction) and, if anybody really cared, she could be more useful in her native environment blabbing about <whatever>.

[WolfBear]

Post by David Tenner
AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK would
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee
(She might be vulnerable to an attempt to get her to stay in the USSR both
because she was already starting to drink more heavily, and also because her
and Fairbanks' good friend Charlie Chaplin would have told her what a great
place it was...)
--
David Tenner

In such a scenario, there might be (much) more hostility in the U.S. towards the idea of giving Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union in 1941 and beyond. I mean, if the Soviet Union kidnaps U.S. citizens, would it really be worth it to help it fight Nazi Germany?

[Alex Milman]

Post by WolfBear

Post by David Tenner
AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK would
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee
(She might be vulnerable to an attempt to get her to stay in the USSR both
because she was already starting to drink more heavily, and also because her
and Fairbanks' good friend Charlie Chaplin would have told her what a great
place it was...)
--
David Tenner

In such a scenario, there might be (much) more hostility in the U.S. towards the idea of giving Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union in 1941 and beyond. I mean, if the Soviet Union kidnaps U.S. citizens, would it really be worth it to help it fight Nazi Germany?

By 1941 both Pickford and Fairbanks were a dim memory.

[Rich Rostrom]

Post by Alex Milman
By 1941 both Pickford and Fairbanks were a dim memory.

Not really; for one thing, Douglas Fairbanks _jr_
was a major Hollywood star, while Pickford was an
important producer.

But it's really irrelevant. The kidnapping of
Fairbanks and Pickford would have dramatic effects
on the world reputation of Communism, as I noted
(at least its Soviet incarnation), and alter the
course of history.

One might see European Communist parties break with
Moscow, which had obviously gone barking mad. If
Trotsky (already at odds with Stalin and purged
from the Politburo) denounced the action as he went
into exile (in 1929), his "Fourth International"
would be more successful.

[Rich Rostrom]

Post by David Tenner
AHC: USSR in the 1920's does to Mary Pickford and Doug Fairbanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Kiss_from_Mary_Pickford what the DPRK would
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Shin_Sang-ok_and_Choi_Eun-hee

_If_ the USSR government is really committed to this
act (with Stalin and Trotsky and the whole Politburo
signing off on it), and thus it isn't immediately
repudiated by everyone but the one particular Bolshie
who did it...

Then Soviet Communism is internationally discredited.

It may not be a particularly awful crime, compared to
the many mass murders already committed by the USSR,
and the brutal tyranny imposed on the Soviet peoples.
But it's _so_ public, _so_ obvious, _so_ impossible
to rationalize.

As the old joke ends "... but ya ---- one goat..."

The DPRK had no reputation to lose, and Sang and Choi
were unknown outside Korea, whereas Pickford and Fairbanks
were world-famous, especially in the key anglosphere.

[Pete Barrett]

Post by Rich Rostrom
Then Soviet Communism is internationally discredited.
It may not be a particularly awful crime, compared to the many mass
murders already committed by the USSR,
and the brutal tyranny imposed on the Soviet peoples.
But it's _so_ public, _so_ obvious, _so_ impossible to rationalize.

Perhaps it wouldn't happen _exactly_ as the Shin and Choi abductions:

First, their Soviet hosts suggest to Fairbanks that they'd like him to
make a film there, with his wife starring and with the resources of the
Soviet state available. Not a propaganda film, no, certainly not; just in
the hope that it might start friendly relations between our two
countries...

Then he'll need a holiday, and the two of them could see more of the
country... It might be a year before they realise that they won't be
_allowed_ to go back.

As for what the Soviet Union would get out of it - it would be a very
public propaganda coup to have the two of them make their homes in the
USSR, apparently voluntarily (several people of lesser fame did do
precisely that at the time, after all). And if they die before they get a
chance to set the record straight about whether their sojourn was
voluntary or not, there might be no kickback for the USSR at all (though
it might make a difference to the Hollywood career of Douglas Fairbanks
Jr.).