Discussion:
Plausibility check: different geographical homes for football codes
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Chrysi Cat
2021-11-12 07:19:20 UTC
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As some of us might (or might not; my Jill ass may be the nearest thing
to a jock in here), football season--no matter which set of laws you
might subscribe to--is near the middle of its run (and I've been
thinking about this since at *least* the beginning of the season).

Then the now-familiar crowing about how "the UK have embraced the
American game!" -- "no they haven't; if they had there'd be a gridiron
field in every village greater than 1000 population" started ensuing
about a month after that.

It got me to thinking: all of the people who founded most of these games
were of similar genetic stock, and the ancestral game of all of them was
the town ball game.

Is there any way that gridiron ball instead originates in the UK? In
particular, I'd think that the possible cause would be that the first
reform to make townball less-deadly might be the imposition of--in some
order--a set number of players, and the down-and-distance system. Then
eventually, just as happened in most every modern football code, the
field would get shrunk and it would become possible to score repeatedly
in order to get beyond that.

Bonus points if you can come up with a way that North America instead
embraces the association game, possibly by it being an *American* who
first commits the etymological fallacy that "the game is called football
not because it's played ON foot, but because it's supposed to only be
played WITH the foot".

I don't really have a suggestion for myself, but if at all possible I
*would* prefer that the absolute first PoD be footy related rather than
it being a knock-on effect from, say, the colonial revolution failing?
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
The Horny Goat
2021-11-12 16:58:54 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
It got me to thinking: all of the people who founded most of these games
were of similar genetic stock, and the ancestral game of all of them was
the town ball game.
Is there any way that gridiron ball instead originates in the UK? In
particular, I'd think that the possible cause would be that the first
reform to make townball less-deadly might be the imposition of--in some
order--a set number of players, and the down-and-distance system. Then
eventually, just as happened in most every modern football code, the
field would get shrunk and it would become possible to score repeatedly
in order to get beyond that.
Why not? Rugby after all started at the school that bears its name.
There's no particular reason it couldn't have started at an American
school.

On the other hand one local municipal councillor of English origin
once told me 'never get rugby and soccer confused - rugby is a
ruffian's game played by gentlemen while soccer is a gentlemen's game
played by ruffians' and from that it should be obvious what sport he
played at the club level well into his 50s and beyond.

Though in my opinion rugby is a superior game to (American) football
as it's continuous action with no substitutions which to me puts a
premium on speed.

Admittedly I may be a bit prejudiced since I have a second cousin who
was a top British national some 50 years ago....
https://www.sportspages.com/product/ronnie_lamont_(instonians_ireland_british_lions)_26509

For myself, I never got the chance to play as my eyesight wasn't up to
snuff and rugby is not a game friendly to those who wear glasses or
contacts.

Canadians have long felt they invented 'North American football' as
the first recorded game played under rules resembling the present day
was in 1874 between McGill (Montreal) and Harvard - and was played
under McGill rules. Like many other things, Americans have adopted
other peoples' inventions and adapted them and made them their own.

The Canadian Grey Cup started in 1907 and long predates most cups in
football like sports including any collegiate or pro cup in the
US.....
Chrysi Cat
2021-11-14 04:23:15 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Chrysi Cat
It got me to thinking: all of the people who founded most of these games
were of similar genetic stock, and the ancestral game of all of them was
the town ball game.
Is there any way that gridiron ball instead originates in the UK? In
particular, I'd think that the possible cause would be that the first
reform to make townball less-deadly might be the imposition of--in some
order--a set number of players, and the down-and-distance system. Then
eventually, just as happened in most every modern football code, the
field would get shrunk and it would become possible to score repeatedly
in order to get beyond that.
Why not? Rugby after all started at the school that bears its name.
There's no particular reason it couldn't have started at an American
school.
I PROBABLY goofed in my original question. It was likely just as much
about "does the gridiron game go international instead if the Yanks
found the Association game" as anything.

Though when I think about it, maybe it shouldn't?

It's not as if most of the places to adopt football as a national sport
were overly friendly on political terms with the British Empire...
Post by The Horny Goat
On the other hand one local municipal councillor of English origin
once told me 'never get rugby and soccer confused - rugby is a
ruffian's game played by gentlemen while soccer is a gentlemen's game
played by ruffians' and from that it should be obvious what sport he
played at the club level well into his 50s and beyond.
Though in my opinion rugby is a superior game to (American) football
as it's continuous action with no substitutions which to me puts a
premium on speed.
Admittedly I may be a bit prejudiced since I have a second cousin who
was a top British national some 50 years ago....
https://www.sportspages.com/product/ronnie_lamont_(instonians_ireland_british_lions)_26509
For myself, I never got the chance to play as my eyesight wasn't up to
snuff and rugby is not a game friendly to those who wear glasses or
contacts.
Canadians have long felt they invented 'North American football' as
the first recorded game played under rules resembling the present day
was in 1874 between McGill (Montreal) and Harvard - and was played
under McGill rules. Like many other things, Americans have adopted
other peoples' inventions and adapted them and made them their own.
The Canadian Grey Cup started in 1907 and long predates most cups in
football like sports including any collegiate or pro cup in the
US.....
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
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