Discussion:
No "Christmas Carol"
(too old to reply)
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-04 12:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Charles Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" in 1843, and "Contemporaries
noted that the story's popularity played a critical role in redefining
the importance of Christmas and the major sentiments associated with
the holiday. A Christmas Carol was written during a time of decline in
the old Christmas traditions. "If Christmas, with its ancient and
hospitable customs, its social and charitable observances, were in
danger of decay, this is the book that would give them a new lease",
said English poet Thomas Hood." Wiki

WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme? Dickens has been called "the man who invented
Christmas" and is held responsible for the Victorian view of Christmas
that has grown into a worldwide consumerist celebration. After all the
other work that promoted a consumerist idea of Christmas was Clement
Moore"s "The Night Before Christmas" written 21 years before and it
had had no perceptable effect, if the first paragraph of this post
held true. One has only to walk into any Japanese department store in
the season to realize it no longer has the religious implications of
the original celebration.

From a consumerist Christmas we have grown Easter Egg rolls on the
White House lawn, commercial Easter egg hunts, and Halloween as a
consumerist celebration, with parades and TV cartoon "specials". Those
formerly religious events are now the theme for TV shows,
advertisements, public displays and school celebrations that promote
the consumer side of them.

The world is subject to the United States' view of these events
because of the penetration of its TV programs that find themselves in
virtually every market.
Les
2008-12-04 20:18:28 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 4, 8:26 am, Jack Linthicum <***@earthlink.net> wrote:

(stuff deleted)
Post by Jack Linthicum
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme?
(rest of post deleted)

Dickens was merely the best to write on such a theme. He was not the
only one to do it by a long shot. Witness "It's a Wonderful Life,"
"Miracle on 32nd Street" (assuming I got the title right), and even
"How the Grinch Stole Christmas."
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-04 20:41:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les
(stuff deleted)
Post by Jack Linthicum
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme?
(rest of post deleted)
Dickens was merely the best to write on such a theme.  He was not the
only one to do it by a long shot.  Witness "It's a Wonderful Life,"
"Miracle on 32nd Street" (assuming I got the title right), and even
"How the Grinch Stole Christmas."
Yeah there were a lot of writers doing that then, you are citing
stories from 80 years later after Dickens had done all the ground work
and booted the Victorians into celebrating Christmas.

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Father of Christmas

01:00 AM EST on Tuesday, December 2, 2008

By Chauncey Mabe

Sun Sentinel

Charles Dickens is the subject of a new book, The Man Who Invented
Christmas.

AP

One of the many famous anecdotes arising from the life of Charles
Dickens, the most important English novelist in the 19th century, came
when the poet Theodore Watts-Duncan reported that a young cockney
street vendor, having just heard of the author’s passing, exclaimed,
“Dickens dead? Then will Father Christmas die, too?”

Christmas has so long been entrenched as the top holiday in the
Western calendar that it seems preposterous to date, as Les Standiford
does in The Man Who Invented Christmas, our now-common Yuletide
traditions to the publication of a single book.

That book, of course, is A Christmas Carol (the biography is
subtitled, How Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol Rescued His Career
and Revived Our Holiday Spirits). Standiford, a mystery writer-turned-
popular historian, brings fresh insight to the familiar story, among
other things linking the revival of Christmas to the restorations of
Dickens’ own fortunes. With an eye for telling detail and a gift for
synthesizing a broad range of sources into a tight and highly readable
narrative, he packs an amazing amount of information into a relatively
brief volume.

Among its other virtues, The Man Who Invented Christmas presents a
biography of Dickens’ life, from his time as an impoverished child
laborer to his later youth as a newspaper reporter to his stunning
early literary success with The Old Curiosity Shop.

At the same time, Standiford provides a history of Christmas, which
had been suppressed in America as well as England by Puritan and other
authorities who saw it as an excuse for peasant drunkenness, revelry
and sexual license.

To be sure, Christmas may have been poised for a revival in any case.
The first commercial Christmas cards went on sale in 1843, the same
year Dickens published his book. The Night Before Christmas, with the
first presentation of St. Nicholas as Santa Claus, had come out two
decades earlier. Prince Philip, Queen Victoria’s consort, helped
popularize the Christmas tree, a tradition he brought from his native
Germany.

But Standiford makes the case that A Christmas Carol deserves most of
the credit for rehabilitating Christmas. By having Scrooge, after his
redemption, buy a turkey for Bob Cratchit’s family, he even displaced
the traditional Christmas goose and helped make turkey-farming a major
business.

Standiford provides insight into the oppressions of England’s
industrial age; publishing and literary culture; and Dickens’
complicated feelings toward the United States. Along the way he
discovers forgotten details: Dickens was on the verge of bankruptcy
when he wrote A Christmas Carol; he divorced his wife after 23 years
of marriage and took up with a much younger actress (he was modern!);
and he produced five more Christmas novels, none of which is read
today.

David Copperfield, Great Expectations and Dickens’ other more
“serious” novels sometimes overshadow A Christmas Carol. Standiford
argues for its literary merit — for the cadences, wry humor, the
fantasy grounded in reality. Modern audiences who know the story only
from its many TV and movie dramatizations, he writes, sadly miss these
elements.
mike
2008-12-05 03:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
To be sure, Christmas may have been poised for a revival in any case.
The first commercial Christmas cards went on sale in 1843, the same
year Dickens published his book. The Night Before Christmas, with the
first presentation of St. Nicholas as Santa Claus, had come out two
decades earlier. Prince Philip, Queen Victoria’s consort, helped
popularize the Christmas tree, a tradition he brought from his native
Germany.
With increasing German immigration in the 1840-50s, Christmas
would get the bump into mainstream USA if the UK didn't
provide the spark

**
mike
**
k***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2008-12-05 12:10:42 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Jack Linthicum
and he produced five more Christmas novels, none of which is read
today.
A Christmas Carol and the other Christmas
stories Dickens produced were not novels by Victorian or modern
standards, they were too short to qualify for that and at least "The
Bells" is still read today. I have never come across any evidence that
he was close to bankruptcy when he wrote the Carol.

Ken Young
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-05 12:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Jack Linthicum
and he produced five more Christmas novels, none of which is read
today.
 A Christmas Carol and the other Christmas
 stories Dickens produced were not novels by Victorian or modern
standards, they were too short to qualify for that and at least "The
Bells" is still read today. I have never come across any evidence that
he was close to bankruptcy when he wrote the Carol.
 Ken Young
This might be the origin of that statement, elder Charles was using
Jr's name. There is juxtaposition here between Dickens avoiding debt
and the writing of the Christmas Carol.

"The now firmly upper-middle-class Charles still has many family
problems, however. His father is still in debt more often than not,
even going so far as to try to borrow money using his son's name, and
Charles ends up paying most of John's debts. Charles himself would
have four children after four years of marriage, and continually
disciplines himself to work like a madman to avoid debt of his own.
With A Christmas Carol in 1843, Charles created his own literary sub-
genre, the Christmas story. He would write one for almost every
Christmas for the rest of his life."

http://incompetech.com/authors/dickens/
Raymond Speer
2008-12-05 14:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Uh, did CHRISTMAS CAROL promote a consumerist fandango every 25th of
Dec?

If Scrooge had hopped out of bed Xmas morning and run to Fleet Street to
get a bunch of flacks to praise his generosity and character while
Scrooge opened a bunch of Big Box stores called Scroo-Mart, where all
employees shiver in the cold, then I would plead the novel guilty of
promulgating Christmas as a sales season.

But that is not the story I read or the movies I have seen.

Scrooge learned to appreciate the goodness and generosity that his
sister, Mr. Fezziwig and his fiance had shown him (not to mention his
good friend, Marley.) Mindful for the first time in years that bitches
and bastards are not the whole of humanity, Scrooge does what something
like Karl Rove would term a flip-flop and becomes a better person than
he had previously been.

Obvious what-if: The enlightened Scrooge needs a shave before he
establishes the Scrooge Foundation to help the poor. Alas, he is on
Fleet Street and the Beadle directs him to Sweeney Todd, a barber whose
epiphany is that "They All Deserve To Die."
Les
2008-12-05 15:40:30 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 4, 4:41 pm, Jack Linthicum <***@earthlink.net> wrote:

(stuff deleted)
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Les
Post by Jack Linthicum
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme?
(rest of post deleted)
Dickens was merely the best to write on such a theme.  He was not the
only one to do it by a long shot.  Witness "It's a Wonderful Life,"
"Miracle on 32nd Street" (assuming I got the title right), and even
"How the Grinch Stole Christmas."
Yeah there were a lot of writers doing that then,
I don't know about that. Most literary works would be lucky to be
known 10 years after publication, let alone 100. Stating that Dickens
was the only one to have written a story about Christmas (not
including several short stories already in existance) is a rather long
shot.
Post by Jack Linthicum
you are citing
stories from 80 years later after Dickens had done all the ground work
and booted the Victorians into celebrating Christmas.
(rest of post deleted)

Hardly. Dickens' descriptions of the Christmas festivities taking
place were familiar Victorian events. Dickens main point in "A
Christmas Carol" was that there was a deeper meaning behind the
celebrations. One of the reasons Dicken's story took off and held was
the already existing perception that Christmas was too commercialized.

About the only commercial aspect of "A Christmas Carole" that I can
recall Dickens using was when the reformed Scrooge bought the biggest
goose from a store to share with the Cratchett family. Even that was
more of an indication of his resolve to make things up for his cruelty
against Bob Cratchett.
The Old Man
2008-12-06 16:10:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les
(stuff deleted)
Prince Philip, Queen Victoria’s consort, helped popularize the Christmas tree, a tradition he brought from his native
Germany.
Is he related to Strom Thurmond???? (1819 - death faked 1861 -
Present) That makes him 189 years old!
J.J. O'Shea
2008-12-06 16:54:01 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:10:41 -0500, The Old Man wrote
(in article
Post by The Old Man
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Les
(stuff deleted)
Prince Philip,
Albert. Phil is another Hun, but by way of Greece instead of direct from
Hunland.
Post by The Old Man
Post by Jack Linthicum
Queen Victoria’s consort, helped popularize the Christmas
tree, a tradition he brought from his native
Germany.
Is he related to Strom Thurmond???? (1819 - death faked 1861 -
Present) That makes him 189 years old!
By most accounts Al was quite a nice fellow, despite being a Hun. It appears
that Vickie liked him. But then she was a Hun, too.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
TeddyMiller
2008-12-05 19:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les
Dickens was merely the best to write on such a theme.  He was not the
only one to do it by a long shot.  Witness "It's a Wonderful Life,"
"Miracle on 32nd Street" (assuming I got the title right), and even
"How the Grinch Stole Christmas."
It's "Miracle on 34th Street". The character is a Macy's department
store Santa, and Macy's is on 34th Street in Manhattan. If you go
a couple of blocks south to 32nd Street, you get lots of Korean
restaurants instead.
The Old Man
2008-12-06 16:05:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les
(stuff deleted)
Post by Jack Linthicum
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme?
(rest of post deleted)
Dickens was merely the best to write on such a theme.  He was not the
only one to do it by a long shot.  Witness "It's a Wonderful Life,"
IAWL was not intended by the director to be considered a Christmas
story, despite it's having taken place at that time. It was released
in the spring of 1946, IIRC. Actually it's more of an AH story where
George is given a glimpse of the world where he didn't exist,
somerhing that is right at home here.
Post by Les
"Miracle on 32nd Street" (assuming I got the title right),
"Miracle on 34th Street"
Post by Les
and even "How the Grinch Stole Christmas."
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-05 18:29:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Charles Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" in 1843, and "Contemporaries
noted that the story's popularity played a critical role in redefining
the importance of Christmas and the major sentiments associated with
the holiday. A Christmas Carol was written during a time of decline in
the old Christmas traditions. "If Christmas, with its ancient and
hospitable customs, its social and charitable observances, were in
danger of decay, this is the book that would give them a new lease",
said English poet Thomas Hood." Wiki
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme? Dickens has been called "the man who invented
Christmas" and is held responsible for the Victorian view of Christmas
that has grown into a worldwide consumerist celebration. After all the
other work that promoted a consumerist idea of Christmas was Clement
Moore"s "The Night Before Christmas" written 21 years before and it
had had no perceptable effect, if the first paragraph of this post
held true. One has only to walk into any Japanese department store in
the season to realize it no longer has the religious implications of
the original celebration.
From a consumerist Christmas we have grown Easter Egg rolls on the
White House lawn, commercial Easter egg hunts, and Halloween as a
consumerist celebration, with parades and TV cartoon "specials". Those
formerly religious events are now the theme for TV shows,
advertisements, public displays and school celebrations that promote
the consumer side of them.
The world is subject to the United States' view of these events
because of the penetration of its TV programs that find themselves in
virtually every market.
http://dhillman.com/dickens/

Dickens wrote Christmans stories before and after a Christmas Carol,
and Dicken's himself acknowledged American author Washington Irving's
contribution and influence on his own writing about Christmas:

"One of Irving's most lasting contributions to American culture is in
the way Americans perceive and celebrate Christmas. In his 1812
revisions to A History of New York, Irving inserted a dream sequence
featuring St. Nicholas soaring over treetops in a flying wagon—a
creation others would later dress up as Santa Claus. Later, in his
five Christmas stories in The Sketch Book, Irving portrayed an
idealized celebration of old-fashioned Christmas customs at a quaint
English manor, which directly contributed to the revival and
reinterpretation of the Christmas holiday in the United States.[96]
Charles Dickens later credited Irving as a strong influence on his own
Christmas writings, including the classic A Christmas Carol. The
Community Area of Irving Park in Chicago was named in Irving's honor."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Irving
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-05 19:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Charles Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" in 1843, and "Contemporaries
noted that the story's popularity played a critical role in redefining
the importance of Christmas and the major sentiments associated with
the holiday. A Christmas Carol was written during a time of decline in
the old Christmas traditions. "If Christmas, with its ancient and
hospitable customs, its social and charitable observances, were in
danger of decay, this is the book that would give them a new lease",
said English poet Thomas Hood." Wiki
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme? Dickens has been called "the man who invented
Christmas" and is held responsible for the Victorian view of Christmas
that has grown into a worldwide consumerist celebration. After all the
other work that promoted a consumerist idea of Christmas was Clement
Moore"s "The Night Before Christmas" written 21 years before and it
had had no perceptable effect, if the first paragraph of this post
held true. One has only to walk into any Japanese department store in
the season to realize it no longer has the religious implications of
the original celebration.
From a consumerist Christmas we have grown Easter Egg rolls on the
White House lawn, commercial Easter egg hunts, and Halloween as a
consumerist celebration, with parades and TV cartoon "specials". Those
formerly religious events are now the theme for TV shows,
advertisements, public displays and school celebrations that promote
the consumer side of them.
The world is subject to the United States' view of these events
because of the penetration of its TV programs that find themselves in
virtually every market.
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
Dickens wrote Christmans stories before and after a Christmas Carol,
and Dicken's himself acknowledged American author Washington Irving's
"One of Irving's most lasting contributions to American culture is in
the way Americans perceive and celebrate Christmas. In his 1812
revisions to A History of New York, Irving inserted a dream sequence
featuring St. Nicholas soaring over treetops in a flying wagon—a
creation others would later dress up as Santa Claus. Later, in his
five Christmas stories in The Sketch Book, Irving portrayed an
idealized celebration of old-fashioned Christmas customs at a quaint
English manor, which directly contributed to the revival and
reinterpretation of the Christmas holiday in the United States.[96]
Charles Dickens later credited Irving as a strong influence on his own
Christmas writings, including the classic A Christmas Carol. The
Community Area of Irving Park in Chicago was named in Irving's honor."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Irving
Would you happen to have a refernece for that Christmas story Dickens
wrote before "A Christmas Carol". There doesn't seem to be one in
this list.

* The Christmas books:
o A Christmas Carol (1843)
o The Chimes (1844)
o The Cricket on the Hearth (1845)
o The Battle of Life (1846)
o The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain (1848)

Christmas numbers of Household Words magazine:

* What Christmas Is, as We Grow Older (1851)
* A Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1852)
* Another Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1853)
* The Seven Poor Travellers (1854)
* The Holly-Tree Inn (1855)
* The Wreck of the "Golden Mary" (1856)
* The Perils of Certain English Prisoners (1857)
* A House to Let (1858)



Christmas numbers of All the Year Round magazine:

* The Haunted House (1859)
* A Message From the Sea (1860)
* Tom Tiddler's Ground (1861)
* Somebody's Luggage (1862)
* Mrs. Lirriper's Lodgings (1863)
* Mrs. Lirriper's Legacy (1864)
* Doctor Marigold's Prescriptions (1865)
* Mugby Junction (1866)
* No Thoroughfare (1867)
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-05 20:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Charles Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" in 1843, and "Contemporaries
noted that the story's popularity played a critical role in redefining
the importance of Christmas and the major sentiments associated with
the holiday. A Christmas Carol was written during a time of decline in
the old Christmas traditions. "If Christmas, with its ancient and
hospitable customs, its social and charitable observances, were in
danger of decay, this is the book that would give them a new lease",
said English poet Thomas Hood." Wiki
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme? Dickens has been called "the man who invented
Christmas" and is held responsible for the Victorian view of Christmas
that has grown into a worldwide consumerist celebration. After all the
other work that promoted a consumerist idea of Christmas was Clement
Moore"s "The Night Before Christmas" written 21 years before and it
had had no perceptable effect, if the first paragraph of this post
held true. One has only to walk into any Japanese department store in
the season to realize it no longer has the religious implications of
the original celebration.
From a consumerist Christmas we have grown Easter Egg rolls on the
White House lawn, commercial Easter egg hunts, and Halloween as a
consumerist celebration, with parades and TV cartoon "specials". Those
formerly religious events are now the theme for TV shows,
advertisements, public displays and school celebrations that promote
the consumer side of them.
The world is subject to the United States' view of these events
because of the penetration of its TV programs that find themselves in
virtually every market.
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
Dickens wrote Christmans stories before and after a Christmas Carol,
and Dicken's himself acknowledged American author Washington Irving's
"One of Irving's most lasting contributions to American culture is in
the way Americans perceive and celebrate Christmas. In his 1812
revisions to A History of New York, Irving inserted a dream sequence
featuring St. Nicholas soaring over treetops in a flying wagon—a
creation others would later dress up as Santa Claus. Later, in his
five Christmas stories in The Sketch Book, Irving portrayed an
idealized celebration of old-fashioned Christmas customs at a quaint
English manor, which directly contributed to the revival and
reinterpretation of the Christmas holiday in the United States.[96]
Charles Dickens later credited Irving as a strong influence on his own
Christmas writings, including the classic A Christmas Carol. The
Community Area of Irving Park in Chicago was named in Irving's honor."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Irving
Would you happen to have a refernece for that Christmas story Dickens
wrote before "A Christmas Carol".  There doesn't seem to be one in
this list.
          o A Christmas Carol (1843)
          o The Chimes (1844)
          o The Cricket on the Hearth (1845)
          o The Battle of Life (1846)
          o The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain (1848)
    * What Christmas Is, as We Grow Older (1851)
    * A Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1852)
    * Another Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1853)
    * The Seven Poor Travellers (1854)
    * The Holly-Tree Inn (1855)
    * The Wreck of the "Golden Mary" (1856)
    * The Perils of Certain English Prisoners (1857)
    * A House to Let (1858)
    * The Haunted House (1859)
    * A Message From the Sea (1860)
    * Tom Tiddler's Ground (1861)
    * Somebody's Luggage (1862)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Lodgings (1863)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Legacy (1864)
    * Doctor Marigold's Prescriptions (1865)
    * Mugby Junction (1866)
    * No Thoroughfare (1867)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
http://dhillman.com/dickens/

"Dickens wrote several other Christmas stories, among them A Christmas
Dinner in 1835; this was written under the pseudonym of Boz."

Christ, Jack, you come across as a senile ex-CIA agent. Tends to
explain 911. I guess the "Get Smart" series had them right, after
all!
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-05 20:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Charles Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" in 1843, and "Contemporaries
noted that the story's popularity played a critical role in redefining
the importance of Christmas and the major sentiments associated with
the holiday. A Christmas Carol was written during a time of decline in
the old Christmas traditions. "If Christmas, with its ancient and
hospitable customs, its social and charitable observances, were in
danger of decay, this is the book that would give them a new lease",
said English poet Thomas Hood." Wiki
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme? Dickens has been called "the man who invented
Christmas" and is held responsible for the Victorian view of Christmas
that has grown into a worldwide consumerist celebration. After all the
other work that promoted a consumerist idea of Christmas was Clement
Moore"s "The Night Before Christmas" written 21 years before and it
had had no perceptable effect, if the first paragraph of this post
held true. One has only to walk into any Japanese department store in
the season to realize it no longer has the religious implications of
the original celebration.
From a consumerist Christmas we have grown Easter Egg rolls on the
White House lawn, commercial Easter egg hunts, and Halloween as a
consumerist celebration, with parades and TV cartoon "specials". Those
formerly religious events are now the theme for TV shows,
advertisements, public displays and school celebrations that promote
the consumer side of them.
The world is subject to the United States' view of these events
because of the penetration of its TV programs that find themselves in
virtually every market.
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
Dickens wrote Christmans stories before and after a Christmas Carol,
and Dicken's himself acknowledged American author Washington Irving's
"One of Irving's most lasting contributions to American culture is in
the way Americans perceive and celebrate Christmas. In his 1812
revisions to A History of New York, Irving inserted a dream sequence
featuring St. Nicholas soaring over treetops in a flying wagon—a
creation others would later dress up as Santa Claus. Later, in his
five Christmas stories in The Sketch Book, Irving portrayed an
idealized celebration of old-fashioned Christmas customs at a quaint
English manor, which directly contributed to the revival and
reinterpretation of the Christmas holiday in the United States.[96]
Charles Dickens later credited Irving as a strong influence on his own
Christmas writings, including the classic A Christmas Carol. The
Community Area of Irving Park in Chicago was named in Irving's honor."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Irving
Would you happen to have a refernece for that Christmas story Dickens
wrote before "A Christmas Carol".  There doesn't seem to be one in
this list.
          o A Christmas Carol (1843)
          o The Chimes (1844)
          o The Cricket on the Hearth (1845)
          o The Battle of Life (1846)
          o The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain (1848)
    * What Christmas Is, as We Grow Older (1851)
    * A Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1852)
    * Another Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1853)
    * The Seven Poor Travellers (1854)
    * The Holly-Tree Inn (1855)
    * The Wreck of the "Golden Mary" (1856)
    * The Perils of Certain English Prisoners (1857)
    * A House to Let (1858)
    * The Haunted House (1859)
    * A Message From the Sea (1860)
    * Tom Tiddler's Ground (1861)
    * Somebody's Luggage (1862)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Lodgings (1863)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Legacy (1864)
    * Doctor Marigold's Prescriptions (1865)
    * Mugby Junction (1866)
    * No Thoroughfare (1867)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
"Dickens wrote several other Christmas stories, among them A Christmas
Dinner in 1835; this was written under the pseudonym of Boz."
Christ, Jack, you come across as a senile ex-CIA agent.  Tends to
explain 911.  I guess the "Get Smart" series had them right, after
all!
It wasn't in his bibliography.
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-05 20:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Charles Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" in 1843, and "Contemporaries
noted that the story's popularity played a critical role in redefining
the importance of Christmas and the major sentiments associated with
the holiday. A Christmas Carol was written during a time of decline in
the old Christmas traditions. "If Christmas, with its ancient and
hospitable customs, its social and charitable observances, were in
danger of decay, this is the book that would give them a new lease",
said English poet Thomas Hood." Wiki
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme? Dickens has been called "the man who invented
Christmas" and is held responsible for the Victorian view of Christmas
that has grown into a worldwide consumerist celebration. After all the
other work that promoted a consumerist idea of Christmas was Clement
Moore"s "The Night Before Christmas" written 21 years before and it
had had no perceptable effect, if the first paragraph of this post
held true. One has only to walk into any Japanese department store in
the season to realize it no longer has the religious implications of
the original celebration.
From a consumerist Christmas we have grown Easter Egg rolls on the
White House lawn, commercial Easter egg hunts, and Halloween as a
consumerist celebration, with parades and TV cartoon "specials". Those
formerly religious events are now the theme for TV shows,
advertisements, public displays and school celebrations that promote
the consumer side of them.
The world is subject to the United States' view of these events
because of the penetration of its TV programs that find themselves in
virtually every market.
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
Dickens wrote Christmans stories before and after a Christmas Carol,
and Dicken's himself acknowledged American author Washington Irving's
"One of Irving's most lasting contributions to American culture is in
the way Americans perceive and celebrate Christmas. In his 1812
revisions to A History of New York, Irving inserted a dream sequence
featuring St. Nicholas soaring over treetops in a flying wagon—a
creation others would later dress up as Santa Claus. Later, in his
five Christmas stories in The Sketch Book, Irving portrayed an
idealized celebration of old-fashioned Christmas customs at a quaint
English manor, which directly contributed to the revival and
reinterpretation of the Christmas holiday in the United States.[96]
Charles Dickens later credited Irving as a strong influence on his own
Christmas writings, including the classic A Christmas Carol. The
Community Area of Irving Park in Chicago was named in Irving's honor."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Irving
Would you happen to have a refernece for that Christmas story Dickens
wrote before "A Christmas Carol".  There doesn't seem to be one in
this list.
          o A Christmas Carol (1843)
          o The Chimes (1844)
          o The Cricket on the Hearth (1845)
          o The Battle of Life (1846)
          o The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain (1848)
    * What Christmas Is, as We Grow Older (1851)
    * A Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1852)
    * Another Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1853)
    * The Seven Poor Travellers (1854)
    * The Holly-Tree Inn (1855)
    * The Wreck of the "Golden Mary" (1856)
    * The Perils of Certain English Prisoners (1857)
    * A House to Let (1858)
    * The Haunted House (1859)
    * A Message From the Sea (1860)
    * Tom Tiddler's Ground (1861)
    * Somebody's Luggage (1862)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Lodgings (1863)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Legacy (1864)
    * Doctor Marigold's Prescriptions (1865)
    * Mugby Junction (1866)
    * No Thoroughfare (1867)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
"Dickens wrote several other Christmas stories, among them A Christmas
Dinner in 1835; this was written under the pseudonym of Boz."
Christ, Jack, you come across as a senile ex-CIA agent.  Tends to
explain 911.  I guess the "Get Smart" series had them right, after
all!
It wasn't in his bibliography.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sketches by Boz
... BOZ. Charles Dickens (1812-1870) An Excerpt. Chapter II - A
Christmas Dinner ... The Complete Work: Sketches By Boz. Project
Gutenberg EBook 882. CHAPTER II--A CHRISTMAS DINNER ...
hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Text/Sketches by Boz - Excerpt - Dick...
- 56k - Cached
Sketches by Boz by Charles Dickens 35
Sketches by Boz - CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS DINNER ... Map > Electronic
Library > Charles Dickens > Sketches by Boz > CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS
DINNER ...
www.classicbookshelf.com/library/charles_dickens/sketches_by_boz/35 -
Cached
Sketches by Boz by Charles Dickens 36
... by Boz - CHAPTER III ... Library > Charles Dickens > Sketches by
Boz > CHAPTER III - THE NEW YEAR ... CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS DINNER.
CHAPTER III - THE ...
www.classicbookshelf.com/library/charles_dickens/sketches_by_boz/36 -
Cached
Wacky Anne's Christmas Library: A Christmas Dinner
Catch up on some Christmas reading! Full texts of classic Christmas
stories, all to get you ... A Christmas Dinner. by Charles Dickens,
1836. Christmas time! ...
members.tripod.com/~wackyanne/library/xldinner.htm - Cached
Wacky Anne's Christmas Library: Stories by Author
A Christmas Dinner Won In Battle. Davies, W.H. (info) Christmas.
Dickens, Charles info) ... Sketches by Boz: A Christmas Dinner.
Sketches by Boz: The New Year ...
members.tripod.com/~wackyanne/library/xlauthor.htm - Cached
Sketches By Boz by Charles Dickens: CHARACTERS CHAPTER II - A
CHRISTMAS ...
CHARACTERS CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS DINNER. The complete text of
Sketches By Boz by Charles Dickens. Dickens messageboard, complete
text of Dickens's books and short ...
www.classicauthors.net/Dickens/sketches/sketches34.html - Cached
Dickens' Christmas Page
David Perdue's Charles Dickens Page ... A Christmas Dinner ...
published in Bell's Life of London - 1836 and later included in
Sketches by Boz. ...
charlesdickenspage.com/christmas.html - Cached
Sketches by Boz
David Perdue's Charles Dickens Page ... A Christmas Dinner. The New
Year. Omnibuses. Gin Shops. Seven Dials. The Pawnbroker's Shop ...
www.fidnet.com/~dap1955/dickens/sketches.html - Cached
Charles Dickens & Christmas - Rare Books & Special Collections ...
A Christmas Dinner," from Sketches by Boz, illustrative of every-day
life and every-day people. ... Dickens's first writing on the
Christmas theme, this essay ...
www.sc.edu/library/spcoll/britlit/dickens/part1.html - Cached
Wacky Anne's Christmas Library: Stories by Author
A Christmas Dinner Won In Battle. Davies, W.H. info. Christmas.
Dickens, Charles info ... Sketches by Boz: A Christmas Dinner.
Sketches by Boz: The New Year ...
www.geocities.com/wackyanne/library/xlauthor.htm - Cached
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-05 21:20:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jack Linthicum
Charles Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" in 1843, and "Contemporaries
noted that the story's popularity played a critical role in redefining
the importance of Christmas and the major sentiments associated with
the holiday. A Christmas Carol was written during a time of decline in
the old Christmas traditions. "If Christmas, with its ancient and
hospitable customs, its social and charitable observances, were in
danger of decay, this is the book that would give them a new lease",
said English poet Thomas Hood." Wiki
WI Dickens had decided that Christmas was fading as a public and
private celebration and it would be futile to write anything with
Christmas as a theme? Dickens has been called "the man who invented
Christmas" and is held responsible for the Victorian view of Christmas
that has grown into a worldwide consumerist celebration. After all the
other work that promoted a consumerist idea of Christmas was Clement
Moore"s "The Night Before Christmas" written 21 years before and it
had had no perceptable effect, if the first paragraph of this post
held true. One has only to walk into any Japanese department store in
the season to realize it no longer has the religious implications of
the original celebration.
From a consumerist Christmas we have grown Easter Egg rolls on the
White House lawn, commercial Easter egg hunts, and Halloween as a
consumerist celebration, with parades and TV cartoon "specials". Those
formerly religious events are now the theme for TV shows,
advertisements, public displays and school celebrations that promote
the consumer side of them.
The world is subject to the United States' view of these events
because of the penetration of its TV programs that find themselves in
virtually every market.
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
Dickens wrote Christmans stories before and after a Christmas Carol,
and Dicken's himself acknowledged American author Washington Irving's
"One of Irving's most lasting contributions to American culture is in
the way Americans perceive and celebrate Christmas. In his 1812
revisions to A History of New York, Irving inserted a dream sequence
featuring St. Nicholas soaring over treetops in a flying wagon—a
creation others would later dress up as Santa Claus. Later, in his
five Christmas stories in The Sketch Book, Irving portrayed an
idealized celebration of old-fashioned Christmas customs at a quaint
English manor, which directly contributed to the revival and
reinterpretation of the Christmas holiday in the United States.[96]
Charles Dickens later credited Irving as a strong influence on his own
Christmas writings, including the classic A Christmas Carol. The
Community Area of Irving Park in Chicago was named in Irving's honor."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Irving
Would you happen to have a refernece for that Christmas story Dickens
wrote before "A Christmas Carol".  There doesn't seem to be one in
this list.
          o A Christmas Carol (1843)
          o The Chimes (1844)
          o The Cricket on the Hearth (1845)
          o The Battle of Life (1846)
          o The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain (1848)
    * What Christmas Is, as We Grow Older (1851)
    * A Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1852)
    * Another Round of Stories by the Christmas Fire (1853)
    * The Seven Poor Travellers (1854)
    * The Holly-Tree Inn (1855)
    * The Wreck of the "Golden Mary" (1856)
    * The Perils of Certain English Prisoners (1857)
    * A House to Let (1858)
    * The Haunted House (1859)
    * A Message From the Sea (1860)
    * Tom Tiddler's Ground (1861)
    * Somebody's Luggage (1862)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Lodgings (1863)
    * Mrs. Lirriper's Legacy (1864)
    * Doctor Marigold's Prescriptions (1865)
    * Mugby Junction (1866)
    * No Thoroughfare (1867)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
http://dhillman.com/dickens/
"Dickens wrote several other Christmas stories, among them A Christmas
Dinner in 1835; this was written under the pseudonym of Boz."
Christ, Jack, you come across as a senile ex-CIA agent.  Tends to
explain 911.  I guess the "Get Smart" series had them right, after
all!
It wasn't in his bibliography.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sketches by Boz
... BOZ. Charles Dickens (1812-1870) An Excerpt. Chapter II - A
Christmas Dinner ... The Complete Work: Sketches By Boz. Project
Gutenberg EBook 882. CHAPTER II--A CHRISTMAS DINNER ...
hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Text/Sketches by Boz - Excerpt - Dick...
- 56k - Cached
Sketches by Boz by Charles Dickens 35
Sketches by Boz - CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS DINNER ... Map > Electronic
Library > Charles Dickens > Sketches by Boz > CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS
DINNER ...www.classicbookshelf.com/library/charles_dickens/sketches_by_boz/35-
Cached
Sketches by Boz by Charles Dickens 36
... by Boz - CHAPTER III ... Library > Charles Dickens > Sketches by
Boz > CHAPTER III - THE NEW YEAR ... CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS DINNER.
CHAPTER III - THE ...www.classicbookshelf.com/library/charles_dickens/sketches_by_boz/36-
Cached
Wacky Anne's Christmas Library: A Christmas Dinner
Catch up on some Christmas reading! Full texts of classic Christmas
stories, all to get you ... A Christmas Dinner. by Charles Dickens,
1836. Christmas time! ...
members.tripod.com/~wackyanne/library/xldinner.htm - Cached
Wacky Anne's Christmas Library: Stories by Author
A Christmas Dinner Won In Battle. Davies, W.H. (info) Christmas.
Dickens, Charles info) ... Sketches by Boz: A Christmas Dinner.
Sketches by Boz: The New Year ...
members.tripod.com/~wackyanne/library/xlauthor.htm - Cached
Sketches By Boz by Charles Dickens: CHARACTERS CHAPTER II - A
CHRISTMAS ...
CHARACTERS CHAPTER II - A CHRISTMAS DINNER. The complete text of
Sketches By Boz by Charles Dickens. Dickens messageboard, complete
text of Dickens's books and short ...www.classicauthors.net/Dickens/sketches/sketches34.html- Cached
Dickens' Christmas Page
David Perdue's Charles Dickens Page ... A Christmas Dinner ...
published in Bell's Life of London - 1836 and later included in
Sketches by Boz. ...
charlesdickenspage.com/christmas.html - Cached
Sketches by Boz
David Perdue's Charles Dickens Page ... A Christmas Dinner. The New
Year. Omnibuses. Gin Shops. Seven Dials. The Pawnbroker's Shop ...www.fidnet.com/~dap1955/dickens/sketches.html- Cached
Charles Dickens & Christmas - Rare Books & Special Collections ...
A Christmas Dinner," from Sketches by Boz, illustrative of every-day
life and every-day people. ... Dickens's first writing on the
Christmas theme, this essay ...www.sc.edu/library/spcoll/britlit/dickens/part1.html- Cached
Wacky Anne's Christmas Library: Stories by Author
A Christmas Dinner Won In Battle. Davies, W.H. info. Christmas.
Dickens, Charles info ... Sketches by Boz: A Christmas Dinner.
Sketches by Boz: The New Year ...www.geocities.com/wackyanne/library/xlauthor.htm- Cached
Which makes one wonder why this was written, by an English bookseller
at that.

"Synopsis: "The Christmas Books" by Charles Dickens became an annual
event following the enormous popular impact of the first story, "A
Christmas Carol" - and so influential that they are credited with
inventing the idea of Christmas itself."


Title: THE CHRISTMAS BOOKS
By: Charles Dickens
Format: Hardback

List price: £19.95
Our price: £12.77
Discount:
36%
You save: £7.18

ISBN 10: 095588182X
ISBN 13: 9780955881824
Availability: Usually dispatched immediately.
Delivery rates
Stock: Currently 323 items in stock
Publisher: WHITE'S BOOKS LTD
Pub. date: 30 September, 2008
Series: Fine Edition
Pages: 416
Description: Beginning with the story "A Christmas Carol", this title
contributes to the Christmas season. It is presented with colourful
cloth bindings and the decorated cloth covers that have a printed
illustration wrapping around. It features coloured page tops,
decorated endpapers, meticulous line-by-line typesetting and thicker
acid free paper.
Synopsis: "The Christmas Books" by Charles Dickens became an annual
event following the enormous popular impact of the first story, "A
Christmas Carol" - and so influential that they are credited with
inventing the idea of Christmas itself. This beautiful edition is part
of a new series offering the best-loved classics in fine volumes, with
colourful cloth bindings, and produced to the highest standards, for
under GBP20. Instead of a dust jacket, the decorated cloth covers have
a printed illustration wrapping around the book.Among the other
elements that differ from standard hardbacks are coloured page tops,
decorated endpapers, meticulous line-by-line typesetting, and thicker
acid free paper, to give these editions extra appeal and embody the
crafted virtues of a good book. The result is quality of design and
production that adds to the pleasure of reading. For anyone interested
in a fine edition of a favourite work, an attractive volume for the
bookshelf or an authentic and distinctive present.
Publication: UK
Imprint: White's

http://www.pickabook.co.uk/095588182X.aspx
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-05 21:21:56 UTC
Permalink
BS sells Jack. Hadn't you noticed?
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-05 21:36:31 UTC
Permalink
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-06 15:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack. I just tell the truth. No money in it.
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-06 16:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack.  I just tell the truth.  No money in it.
You ought to tell these guys your "truth"

The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas
Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits (Hardcover)
by Les Standiford

Dickens: The Man Who Invented Christmas (Who Was...?) [IMPORT]
(Paperback)
by Andrew Billen

Christmas Curiosities: Odd, Dark, and Forgotten Christmas (Hardcover)
by John Grossman (Author)


Oh, by gosh, by golly. It’s time for . . . rowdy bands of drunkards
roaming the streets, lighting firecrackers, and firing off guns? Gangs
of masked youths invading people’s houses, demanding food, drink, and
money—and threatening to break the windows (or worse) unless they’re
given what they want?

Welcome to Christmas, circa 1800. Yes, the season of light, joy, and
gift-giving was once regarded as a time of darkness, danger, and
dissipation—and celebrated with all-too-public displays of
noisemaking, inebriation, and gluttonous overeating. (Well, maybe not
everything has changed.) And though we tend to imagine Victorian-era
Christmases as sentimental gatherings around the candlelit tree,
blazing hearth, and festive punchbowl, the 19th-century evidence tells
us quite otherwise.

Drawing from his extensive collection of antique postcards, greeting
cards, advertising giveaways, and other ephemera, author John Grossman
presents a picture of Christmas past that, frankly, looks a lot more
like Halloween. Broomstick-riding witches and vampire bat–borne cupids
deliver New Year’s greetings. Fur-clad fairies gather ’round a
campfire to roast their Christmas dinner—a huge dead rat. And Saint
Nicholas? He’s that skinny guy in the bishop robes who arrives with
his dark companion, the Devil-like Krampus brandishing switches to
punish the badly behaved.

With Christmas Curiosities, STC wishes you a very merry, very scary
Christmas.



The artwork is exceptional. The observations are terrific. A Christmas
book with a different view. Whoever says the good old days, needs to
read this book. I love all of John Grossman's books, and this one
didn't disappoint.

Americans tend to forget that a long tradition of ghosts and
ghoulishness preceded Dickens' "Christmas Carol"; John Grossman brings
it back to the forefront in this collection of postcards,
advertisements, and illustrations from the 19th and early 20th
centuries.

If anthropomorphized foodstuffs and seemingly predatory angels give
pause, those are merely the icing on Grossman's fiendish pudding of
divine children, saints, witches, goblins, and devils, all bringing
holiday cheer or retribution, depending on the behavior of the
recipients. The author's text is a delight, balancing historical
context with humorous commentary.

This book is also valuable for the perspective it offers regarding the
evolution of the Christmas holiday and its principal figures. The
unfailingly jolly and almost completely secular Santa Claus of today
would be a stranger among the early 19th century's incarnations of St.
Nicholas, Father Christmas, and demonic Krampus.

This book would make a wonderful gift, particularly for those
suffering from an overload of Christmas sugarplums.
J.J. O'Shea
2008-12-06 16:55:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:21:11 -0500, Jack Linthicum wrote
(in article
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack.  I just tell the truth.  No money in it.
You ought to tell these guys your "truth"
The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas
Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits (Hardcover)
by Les Standiford
Dickens: The Man Who Invented Christmas (Who Was...?) [IMPORT]
(Paperback)
by Andrew Billen
Christmas Curiosities: Odd, Dark, and Forgotten Christmas (Hardcover)
by John Grossman (Author)
Oh, by gosh, by golly. It’s time for . . . rowdy bands of drunkards
roaming the streets, lighting firecrackers, and firing off guns? Gangs
of masked youths invading people’s houses, demanding food, drink, and
money—and threatening to break the windows (or worse) unless they’re
given what they want?
Welcome to Christmas, circa 1800. Yes, the season of light, joy, and
gift-giving was once regarded as a time of darkness, danger, and
dissipation—and celebrated with all-too-public displays of
noisemaking, inebriation, and gluttonous overeating. (Well, maybe not
everything has changed.) And though we tend to imagine Victorian-era
Christmases as sentimental gatherings around the candlelit tree,
blazing hearth, and festive punchbowl, the 19th-century evidence tells
us quite otherwise.
Drawing from his extensive collection of antique postcards, greeting
cards, advertising giveaways, and other ephemera, author John Grossman
presents a picture of Christmas past that, frankly, looks a lot more
like Halloween. Broomstick-riding witches and vampire bat–borne cupids
deliver New Year’s greetings. Fur-clad fairies gather ’round a
campfire to roast their Christmas dinner—a huge dead rat. And Saint
Nicholas? He’s that skinny guy in the bishop robes who arrives with
his dark companion, the Devil-like Krampus brandishing switches to
punish the badly behaved.
With Christmas Curiosities, STC wishes you a very merry, very scary
Christmas.
The artwork is exceptional. The observations are terrific. A Christmas
book with a different view. Whoever says the good old days, needs to
read this book. I love all of John Grossman's books, and this one
didn't disappoint.
Americans tend to forget that a long tradition of ghosts and
ghoulishness preceded Dickens' "Christmas Carol"; John Grossman brings
it back to the forefront in this collection of postcards,
advertisements, and illustrations from the 19th and early 20th
centuries.
If anthropomorphized foodstuffs and seemingly predatory angels give
pause, those are merely the icing on Grossman's fiendish pudding of
divine children, saints, witches, goblins, and devils, all bringing
holiday cheer or retribution, depending on the behavior of the
recipients. The author's text is a delight, balancing historical
context with humorous commentary.
This book is also valuable for the perspective it offers regarding the
evolution of the Christmas holiday and its principal figures. The
unfailingly jolly and almost completely secular Santa Claus of today
would be a stranger among the early 19th century's incarnations of St.
Nicholas, Father Christmas, and demonic Krampus.
This book would make a wonderful gift, particularly for those
suffering from an overload of Christmas sugarplums.
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation. Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-06 17:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack.  I just tell the truth.  No money in it.
You ought to tell these guys your "truth"
The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas
Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits (Hardcover)
by Les Standiford
Dickens: The Man Who Invented Christmas (Who Was...?) [IMPORT]
(Paperback)
by Andrew Billen
Christmas Curiosities: Odd, Dark, and Forgotten Christmas (Hardcover)
by John Grossman (Author)
Oh, by gosh, by golly. It’s time for . . . rowdy bands of drunkards
roaming the streets, lighting firecrackers, and firing off guns? Gangs
of masked youths invading people’s houses, demanding food, drink, and
money—and threatening to break the windows (or worse) unless they’re
given what they want?
Welcome to Christmas, circa 1800. Yes, the season of light, joy, and
gift-giving was once regarded as a time of darkness, danger, and
dissipation—and celebrated with all-too-public displays of
noisemaking, inebriation, and gluttonous overeating. (Well, maybe not
everything has changed.) And though we tend to imagine Victorian-era
Christmases as sentimental gatherings around the candlelit tree,
blazing hearth, and festive punchbowl, the 19th-century evidence tells
us quite otherwise.
 Drawing from his extensive collection of antique postcards, greeting
cards, advertising giveaways, and other ephemera, author John Grossman
presents a picture of Christmas past that, frankly, looks a lot more
like Halloween. Broomstick-riding witches and vampire bat–borne cupids
deliver New Year’s greetings. Fur-clad fairies gather ’round a
campfire to roast their Christmas dinner—a huge dead rat. And Saint
Nicholas? He’s that skinny guy in the bishop robes who arrives with
his dark companion, the Devil-like Krampus brandishing switches to
punish the badly behaved.
With Christmas Curiosities, STC wishes you a very merry, very scary
Christmas.
The artwork is exceptional. The observations are terrific. A Christmas
book with a different view. Whoever says the good old days, needs to
read this book. I love all of John Grossman's books, and this one
didn't disappoint.
Americans tend to forget that a long tradition of ghosts and
ghoulishness preceded Dickens' "Christmas Carol"; John Grossman brings
it back to the forefront in this collection of postcards,
advertisements, and illustrations from the 19th and early 20th
centuries.
If anthropomorphized foodstuffs and seemingly predatory angels give
pause, those are merely the icing on Grossman's fiendish pudding of
divine children, saints, witches, goblins, and devils, all bringing
holiday cheer or retribution, depending on the behavior of the
recipients. The author's text is a delight, balancing historical
context with humorous commentary.
This book is also valuable for the perspective it offers regarding the
evolution of the Christmas holiday and its principal figures. The
unfailingly jolly and almost completely secular Santa Claus of today
would be a stranger among the early 19th century's incarnations of St.
Nicholas, Father Christmas, and demonic Krampus.
This book would make a wonderful gift, particularly for those
suffering from an overload of Christmas sugarplums.
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
You know, I seem to remember a caution light going on when I saw his
name as a commenter. Thanks.
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-06 18:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack.  I just tell the truth.  No money in it.
You ought to tell these guys your "truth"
The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas
Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits (Hardcover)
by Les Standiford
Dickens: The Man Who Invented Christmas (Who Was...?) [IMPORT]
(Paperback)
by Andrew Billen
Christmas Curiosities: Odd, Dark, and Forgotten Christmas (Hardcover)
by John Grossman (Author)
Oh, by gosh, by golly. It’s time for . . . rowdy bands of drunkards
roaming the streets, lighting firecrackers, and firing off guns? Gangs
of masked youths invading people’s houses, demanding food, drink, and
money—and threatening to break the windows (or worse) unless they’re
given what they want?
Welcome to Christmas, circa 1800. Yes, the season of light, joy, and
gift-giving was once regarded as a time of darkness, danger, and
dissipation—and celebrated with all-too-public displays of
noisemaking, inebriation, and gluttonous overeating. (Well, maybe not
everything has changed.) And though we tend to imagine Victorian-era
Christmases as sentimental gatherings around the candlelit tree,
blazing hearth, and festive punchbowl, the 19th-century evidence tells
us quite otherwise.
 Drawing from his extensive collection of antique postcards, greeting
cards, advertising giveaways, and other ephemera, author John Grossman
presents a picture of Christmas past that, frankly, looks a lot more
like Halloween. Broomstick-riding witches and vampire bat–borne cupids
deliver New Year’s greetings. Fur-clad fairies gather ’round a
campfire to roast their Christmas dinner—a huge dead rat. And Saint
Nicholas? He’s that skinny guy in the bishop robes who arrives with
his dark companion, the Devil-like Krampus brandishing switches to
punish the badly behaved.
With Christmas Curiosities, STC wishes you a very merry, very scary
Christmas.
The artwork is exceptional. The observations are terrific. A Christmas
book with a different view. Whoever says the good old days, needs to
read this book. I love all of John Grossman's books, and this one
didn't disappoint.
Americans tend to forget that a long tradition of ghosts and
ghoulishness preceded Dickens' "Christmas Carol"; John Grossman brings
it back to the forefront in this collection of postcards,
advertisements, and illustrations from the 19th and early 20th
centuries.
If anthropomorphized foodstuffs and seemingly predatory angels give
pause, those are merely the icing on Grossman's fiendish pudding of
divine children, saints, witches, goblins, and devils, all bringing
holiday cheer or retribution, depending on the behavior of the
recipients. The author's text is a delight, balancing historical
context with humorous commentary.
This book is also valuable for the perspective it offers regarding the
evolution of the Christmas holiday and its principal figures. The
unfailingly jolly and almost completely secular Santa Claus of today
would be a stranger among the early 19th century's incarnations of St.
Nicholas, Father Christmas, and demonic Krampus.
This book would make a wonderful gift, particularly for those
suffering from an overload of Christmas sugarplums.
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
You know, I seem to remember a caution light going on when I saw his
name as a commenter. Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Truth is very irritating to morons. I've noticed that.

Sorry for irritating you, Jack.
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-06 18:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack.  I just tell the truth.  No money in it.
You ought to tell these guys your "truth"
The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas
Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits (Hardcover)
by Les Standiford
Dickens: The Man Who Invented Christmas (Who Was...?) [IMPORT]
(Paperback)
by Andrew Billen
Christmas Curiosities: Odd, Dark, and Forgotten Christmas (Hardcover)
by John Grossman (Author)
Oh, by gosh, by golly. It’s time for . . . rowdy bands of drunkards
roaming the streets, lighting firecrackers, and firing off guns? Gangs
of masked youths invading people’s houses, demanding food, drink, and
money—and threatening to break the windows (or worse) unless they’re
given what they want?
Welcome to Christmas, circa 1800. Yes, the season of light, joy, and
gift-giving was once regarded as a time of darkness, danger, and
dissipation—and celebrated with all-too-public displays of
noisemaking, inebriation, and gluttonous overeating. (Well, maybe not
everything has changed.) And though we tend to imagine Victorian-era
Christmases as sentimental gatherings around the candlelit tree,
blazing hearth, and festive punchbowl, the 19th-century evidence tells
us quite otherwise.
 Drawing from his extensive collection of antique postcards, greeting
cards, advertising giveaways, and other ephemera, author John Grossman
presents a picture of Christmas past that, frankly, looks a lot more
like Halloween. Broomstick-riding witches and vampire bat–borne cupids
deliver New Year’s greetings. Fur-clad fairies gather ’round a
campfire to roast their Christmas dinner—a huge dead rat. And Saint
Nicholas? He’s that skinny guy in the bishop robes who arrives with
his dark companion, the Devil-like Krampus brandishing switches to
punish the badly behaved.
With Christmas Curiosities, STC wishes you a very merry, very scary
Christmas.
The artwork is exceptional. The observations are terrific. A Christmas
book with a different view. Whoever says the good old days, needs to
read this book. I love all of John Grossman's books, and this one
didn't disappoint.
Americans tend to forget that a long tradition of ghosts and
ghoulishness preceded Dickens' "Christmas Carol"; John Grossman brings
it back to the forefront in this collection of postcards,
advertisements, and illustrations from the 19th and early 20th
centuries.
If anthropomorphized foodstuffs and seemingly predatory angels give
pause, those are merely the icing on Grossman's fiendish pudding of
divine children, saints, witches, goblins, and devils, all bringing
holiday cheer or retribution, depending on the behavior of the
recipients. The author's text is a delight, balancing historical
context with humorous commentary.
This book is also valuable for the perspective it offers regarding the
evolution of the Christmas holiday and its principal figures. The
unfailingly jolly and almost completely secular Santa Claus of today
would be a stranger among the early 19th century's incarnations of St.
Nicholas, Father Christmas, and demonic Krampus.
This book would make a wonderful gift, particularly for those
suffering from an overload of Christmas sugarplums.
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
You know, I seem to remember a caution light going on when I saw his
name as a commenter. Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Truth is very irritating to morons.  I've noticed that.
Sorry for irritating you, Jack.
Yes, you do seem irritated, guess that explains it. See next rock.
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-06 18:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack.  I just tell the truth.  No money in it.
You ought to tell these guys your "truth"
The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas
Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits (Hardcover)
by Les Standiford
Dickens: The Man Who Invented Christmas (Who Was...?) [IMPORT]
(Paperback)
by Andrew Billen
Christmas Curiosities: Odd, Dark, and Forgotten Christmas (Hardcover)
by John Grossman (Author)
Oh, by gosh, by golly. It’s time for . . . rowdy bands of drunkards
roaming the streets, lighting firecrackers, and firing off guns? Gangs
of masked youths invading people’s houses, demanding food, drink, and
money—and threatening to break the windows (or worse) unless they’re
given what they want?
Welcome to Christmas, circa 1800. Yes, the season of light, joy, and
gift-giving was once regarded as a time of darkness, danger, and
dissipation—and celebrated with all-too-public displays of
noisemaking, inebriation, and gluttonous overeating. (Well, maybe not
everything has changed.) And though we tend to imagine Victorian-era
Christmases as sentimental gatherings around the candlelit tree,
blazing hearth, and festive punchbowl, the 19th-century evidence tells
us quite otherwise.
 Drawing from his extensive collection of antique postcards, greeting
cards, advertising giveaways, and other ephemera, author John Grossman
presents a picture of Christmas past that, frankly, looks a lot more
like Halloween. Broomstick-riding witches and vampire bat–borne cupids
deliver New Year’s greetings. Fur-clad fairies gather ’round a
campfire to roast their Christmas dinner—a huge dead rat. And Saint
Nicholas? He’s that skinny guy in the bishop robes who arrives with
his dark companion, the Devil-like Krampus brandishing switches to
punish the badly behaved.
With Christmas Curiosities, STC wishes you a very merry, very scary
Christmas.
The artwork is exceptional. The observations are terrific. A Christmas
book with a different view. Whoever says the good old days, needs to
read this book. I love all of John Grossman's books, and this one
didn't disappoint.
Americans tend to forget that a long tradition of ghosts and
ghoulishness preceded Dickens' "Christmas Carol"; John Grossman brings
it back to the forefront in this collection of postcards,
advertisements, and illustrations from the 19th and early 20th
centuries.
If anthropomorphized foodstuffs and seemingly predatory angels give
pause, those are merely the icing on Grossman's fiendish pudding of
divine children, saints, witches, goblins, and devils, all bringing
holiday cheer or retribution, depending on the behavior of the
recipients. The author's text is a delight, balancing historical
context with humorous commentary.
This book is also valuable for the perspective it offers regarding the
evolution of the Christmas holiday and its principal figures. The
unfailingly jolly and almost completely secular Santa Claus of today
would be a stranger among the early 19th century's incarnations of St.
Nicholas, Father Christmas, and demonic Krampus.
This book would make a wonderful gift, particularly for those
suffering from an overload of Christmas sugarplums.
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
You know, I seem to remember a caution light going on when I saw his
name as a commenter. Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Truth is very irritating to morons.  I've noticed that.
Sorry for irritating you, Jack.
Yes, you do seem irritated, guess that explains it. See next rock.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So, you're acknowledging that you're a moron, Jack?

Takes a Big Moron, to do that, Jack.
J.J. O'Shea
2008-12-06 18:47:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:15:12 -0500, Jack Linthicum wrote
(in article
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
BS sells Jack.  Hadn't you noticed?
No I hadn't, what are you selling?
I don't sell Jack.  I just tell the truth.  No money in it.
You ought to tell these guys your "truth"
The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas
Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits (Hardcover)
by Les Standiford
Dickens: The Man Who Invented Christmas (Who Was...?) [IMPORT]
(Paperback)
by Andrew Billen
Christmas Curiosities: Odd, Dark, and Forgotten Christmas (Hardcover)
by John Grossman (Author)
Oh, by gosh, by golly. It’s time for . . . rowdy bands of drunkards
roaming the streets, lighting firecrackers, and firing off guns? Gangs
of masked youths invading people’s houses, demanding food, drink, and
money—and threatening to break the windows (or worse) unless they’re
given what they want?
Welcome to Christmas, circa 1800. Yes, the season of light, joy, and
gift-giving was once regarded as a time of darkness, danger, and
dissipation—and celebrated with all-too-public displays of
noisemaking, inebriation, and gluttonous overeating. (Well, maybe not
everything has changed.) And though we tend to imagine Victorian-era
Christmases as sentimental gatherings around the candlelit tree,
blazing hearth, and festive punchbowl, the 19th-century evidence tells
us quite otherwise.
 Drawing from his extensive collection of antique postcards, greeting
cards, advertising giveaways, and other ephemera, author John Grossman
presents a picture of Christmas past that, frankly, looks a lot more
like Halloween. Broomstick-riding witches and vampire bat–borne cupids
deliver New Year’s greetings. Fur-clad fairies gather ’round a
campfire to roast their Christmas dinner—a huge dead rat. And Saint
Nicholas? He’s that skinny guy in the bishop robes who arrives with
his dark companion, the Devil-like Krampus brandishing switches to
punish the badly behaved.
With Christmas Curiosities, STC wishes you a very merry, very scary
Christmas.
The artwork is exceptional. The observations are terrific. A Christmas
book with a different view. Whoever says the good old days, needs to
read this book. I love all of John Grossman's books, and this one
didn't disappoint.
Americans tend to forget that a long tradition of ghosts and
ghoulishness preceded Dickens' "Christmas Carol"; John Grossman brings
it back to the forefront in this collection of postcards,
advertisements, and illustrations from the 19th and early 20th
centuries.
If anthropomorphized foodstuffs and seemingly predatory angels give
pause, those are merely the icing on Grossman's fiendish pudding of
divine children, saints, witches, goblins, and devils, all bringing
holiday cheer or retribution, depending on the behavior of the
recipients. The author's text is a delight, balancing historical
context with humorous commentary.
This book is also valuable for the perspective it offers regarding the
evolution of the Christmas holiday and its principal figures. The
unfailingly jolly and almost completely secular Santa Claus of today
would be a stranger among the early 19th century's incarnations of St.
Nicholas, Father Christmas, and demonic Krampus.
This book would make a wonderful gift, particularly for those
suffering from an overload of Christmas sugarplums.
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
You know, I seem to remember a caution light going on when I saw his
name as a commenter. Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Truth is very irritating to morons.  I've noticed that.
Sorry for irritating you, Jack.
Yes, you do seem irritated,
Yep. Flashlight boy gets that way when people point out his errors.
Post by Jack Linthicum
guess that explains it. See next rock.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-06 18:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation. Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
In the sense that light is also a physical form of radiation, a
flashlight and a fusion bomb are indeed associated. I realize that
conceptual associations of this type are beyond the capacity of those
with an IQ below 45, like yourself Mr/Ms O'Shea. And those you deal
with, in general.
J.J. O'Shea
2008-12-06 18:46:23 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:13:42 -0500, Jerry Kraus wrote
(in article
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation. Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
In the sense that light is also a physical form of radiation, a
flashlight and a fusion bomb are indeed associated. I realize that
conceptual associations of this type are beyond the capacity of those
with an IQ below 45, like yourself Mr/Ms O'Shea. And those you deal
with, in general.
You still don't know the diff between ionising and non-ionising radiation.
And you also don't know the diff between the relative power levels involved.

Shall we compare, for example, being run over by a Mattel Hot Wheels toy car
and being run over by an M1A1 Abrams main battle tank? That's the diff
between the power levels... only you'd better scale that there M1A1 up to
something bigger, like say one of Keith Laumer's Bolos.

Alternately we could compare being hit by a BB pellet to being hit by a
Hyper-Velocity Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium shot from a
M1A1's main gun. That's the diff between being hit by visible light and
high-energy gammas or fast neutrons. And again, perhaps we should scale that
up a bit... replace the HVFSDSDU shot with AP shot from an American 16" 50
caliber Mark 7 naval rifle, the weapons fitted to IOWA dreadnoughts.

Comparing a flashlight to a fusion bomb is _beyond_ stupid.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-06 18:54:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
In the sense that light is also a physical form of radiation, a
flashlight and a fusion bomb are indeed associated.  I realize that
conceptual associations of this type are beyond the capacity of those
with an IQ below 45, like yourself Mr/Ms O'Shea.  And those you deal
with, in general.
You still don't know the diff between ionising and non-ionising radiation.
And you also don't know the diff between the relative power levels involved.
Shall we compare, for example, being run over by a Mattel Hot Wheels toy car
and being run over by an M1A1 Abrams main battle tank? That's the diff
between the power levels... only you'd better scale that there M1A1 up to
something bigger, like say one of Keith Laumer's Bolos.
Alternately we could compare being hit by a BB pellet to being hit by a
Hyper-Velocity Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium shot from a
M1A1's main gun. That's the diff between being hit by visible light and
high-energy gammas or fast neutrons. And again, perhaps we should scale that
up a bit... replace the HVFSDSDU shot with AP shot from an American 16" 50
caliber Mark 7 naval rifle, the weapons fitted to IOWA dreadnoughts.
Comparing a flashlight to a fusion bomb is _beyond_ stupid.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Paranoid schizophrenics like yourself and your friends do have trouble
with real-world, abstract associations. They become abusive, at
length. Have you considered medication? It might help you.
Jack Linthicum
2008-12-06 20:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
In the sense that light is also a physical form of radiation, a
flashlight and a fusion bomb are indeed associated.  I realize that
conceptual associations of this type are beyond the capacity of those
with an IQ below 45, like yourself Mr/Ms O'Shea.  And those you deal
with, in general.
You still don't know the diff between ionising and non-ionising radiation.
And you also don't know the diff between the relative power levels involved.
Shall we compare, for example, being run over by a Mattel Hot Wheels toy car
and being run over by an M1A1 Abrams main battle tank? That's the diff
between the power levels... only you'd better scale that there M1A1 up to
something bigger, like say one of Keith Laumer's Bolos.
Alternately we could compare being hit by a BB pellet to being hit by a
Hyper-Velocity Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium shot from a
M1A1's main gun. That's the diff between being hit by visible light and
high-energy gammas or fast neutrons. And again, perhaps we should scale that
up a bit... replace the HVFSDSDU shot with AP shot from an American 16" 50
caliber Mark 7 naval rifle, the weapons fitted to IOWA dreadnoughts.
Comparing a flashlight to a fusion bomb is _beyond_ stupid.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Paranoid schizophrenics like yourself and your friends do have trouble
with real-world, abstract associations.  They become abusive, at
length.  Have you considered medication?  It might help you.
Share
J.J. O'Shea
2008-12-06 20:48:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:27:56 -0500, Jack Linthicum wrote
(in article
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by J.J. O'Shea
(in article
You've got to remember that you're dealing with someone who thinks that a
flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb. Quote: "Christ, all light is
radiation.  Are you afraid of a flashlight?"
In the sense that light is also a physical form of radiation, a
flashlight and a fusion bomb are indeed associated.  I realize that
conceptual associations of this type are beyond the capacity of those
with an IQ below 45, like yourself Mr/Ms O'Shea.  And those you deal
with, in general.
You still don't know the diff between ionising and non-ionising radiation.
And you also don't know the diff between the relative power levels involved.
Shall we compare, for example, being run over by a Mattel Hot Wheels toy car
and being run over by an M1A1 Abrams main battle tank? That's the diff
between the power levels... only you'd better scale that there M1A1 up to
something bigger, like say one of Keith Laumer's Bolos.
Alternately we could compare being hit by a BB pellet to being hit by a
Hyper-Velocity Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium shot from a
M1A1's main gun. That's the diff between being hit by visible light and
high-energy gammas or fast neutrons. And again, perhaps we should scale that
up a bit... replace the HVFSDSDU shot with AP shot from an American 16" 50
caliber Mark 7 naval rifle, the weapons fitted to IOWA dreadnoughts.
Comparing a flashlight to a fusion bomb is _beyond_ stupid.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Paranoid schizophrenics like yourself and your friends do have trouble
with real-world, abstract associations.  They become abusive, at
length.  Have you considered medication?  It might help you.
Amazing. _You_ think that a flashlight is equivalent to a fusion bomb, but
_I_ am nuts? Yeah. Right. I notice that you didn't even try to rebut my
points...

1 you don't know the diff between ionising and non-ionising radiation

2 you don't know the diff in power delivered by a flashlight and a fusion
bomb.

(Yes, even visible light is dangerous at the power levels delivered by a
fusion bomb...)
Share
He needs all he can get.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-07 21:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Paranoid schizophrenics like yourself and your friends do have trouble
with real-world, abstract associations. They become abusive, at
length. Have you considered medication? It might help you.
Share-
Do you and Ms. O'Shea generally share your medications with your
friends, Jack? Kind of the bipolar version of wife-swapping, I
suppose. How promiscuous of you.

Jack Linthicum
2008-12-07 13:57:03 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 4, 7:26 am, Jack Linthicum <***@earthlink.net> wrote:


December 7, 2008
Holiday Books
Father Christmas
By KATHRYN HARRISON

THE MAN WHO INVENTED CHRISTMAS

How Charles Dickens’s “A Christmas Carol” Rescued His Career and
Revived Our Holiday Spirits

By Les Standiford

241 pp. Crown Publishers. $19.95

Creamed turkey. Curried turkey. Turkey à la king. Turkey potpies.
Turkey macaroni casserole. . . . If only Ebenezer Scrooge had not, in
the excitement of his transformation from miser to humanitarian,
diverged from the traditional Christmas goose to surprise Bob Cratchit
with a turkey “twice the size of Tiny Tim.” But — alas — he did, and
as “A Christmas Carol” approaches its 165th birthday, a Google search
answers the plaint “leftover turkey” with more than 300,000 promises
of recipes to dispatch it. As for England’s goose-raising industry, it
tanked.

Scrooge. Tiny Tim. Bah, Humbug! “A Christmas Carol” may no longer
effect the “sledgehammer blow” its author intended to bring down “on
behalf of the poor and unfortunate,” but more than a century and a
half after its publication in 1843 it remains one of the rare novels
to have infiltrated popular culture, leaving the impress of its
characters and language and choice of appropriately celebratory fowl
even on those who have never read it or seen one of its countless
stage and film adaptations. Scrooge and his edifying ghosts are so
much a part of Christmas that the idea their creator might actually
have “invented” the holiday as we know it is neither new nor original
to Les Standiford.

“The Man Who Invented Christmas” is a good title, too catchy to
resist, perhaps, as Standiford admits that the public’s extraor­dinary
and lasting embrace of Dickens’s short novel is but one evidence of
the 19th century’s changing attitude toward Christmas. In 1819,
Washington Irving’s immensely popular “Sketch Book of Geoffrey Crayon,
Gent” had “glorified” the “social rites”of the season. Clement Moore’s
1823 poem “The Night Before Christmas” introduced a fat and jolly St.
Nick whose obvious attractions eclipsed what had been a “foreboding
figure of judgment” as likely to distribute canings as gifts. Queen
Victoria and her Bavarian husband, Albert, “great boosters of the
season,” had installed a Christmas tree in Windsor Castle each year
since 1840, encouraging a fad that spread overseas to America by 1848.
In “The Descent of Man” (1871), Charles Darwin announced that
celebrants of the season had a more tangible relationship to apes than
to annunciations, further secularizing what the Christian church
hadn’t conceived but poached (along with Yule logs and stockings to
stuff) from German pagan practices. A writer and his era’s zeitgeist
may be “animated by the same energy and faith,” as Peter Ackroyd
observes in his 1990 biography of Scrooge’s creator, but the idea of
Dickens’s responsibility for what has become an orgy of tinsel and
spending is one he dismisses as humbuggery, the suggestion of “the
more sentimental of his chroniclers.”

What is true is that Christmas, more than any other holiday, offered a
means for the adult Dickens to redeem the despair and terrors of his
childhood. In 1824, after a series of financial embarrassments drove
his family to exchange what he remembered as a pleasant country
existence for a “mean, small tenement” in London, the 12-year-old
Dickens, his schooling interrupted — ended, for all he knew — was sent
to work 10-hour days at a shoe blacking factory in a quixotic attempt
to remedy his family’s insolvency. Not even a week later, his father
was incarcerated in the infamous Marshalsea prison for a failure to
pay a debt of £40 to a baker. At this, Dickens’s “grief and
humiliation” overwhelmed him so thoroughly that it retained the power
to overshadow his adult accomplishments, calling him to “wander
desolately back” to the scene of his mortification. And because
Dickens’s tribulations were not particular to him but emblematic of
the Industrial Revolution — armies of neglected, unschooled children
forced into labor — the concerns that inform his fiction were shared
by millions of potential readers.

A Dickens novel (“Oliver Twist,” “Little Dorrit,” “Bleak House”)
announces more than cloaks its agenda to reveal social injustice,
especially the plight of those two “abject, frightful, hideous,
miserable” children peering out from under the robe worn by the Ghost
of Christmas Present. “This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want,” the
Ghost tells the quaking Scrooge. “No perversion of humanity . . . has
monsters half so horrible and dread.” Dickens intended to make the
sufferings of the most vulnerable of the underclass so pungently real
to his readers that they could not continue to ignore their need, not
so much for charity as for the means to save themselves: education. At
least this was his conscious purpose — his rationalization. The deeper
truth is that even genius of the magnitude of Dickens’s can’t free an
artist from his demons; it can only offer him an arena for engaging
them.

The months leading up to the publication of “A Christmas Carol” in
December 1843 were not happy ones for Dickens. The most popular writer
in England — in the world — was falling further into debt as he
struggled to support a large family that included his spendthrift
father. Sales for the currently serialized “Martin Chuzzlewit” had
been disappointing; “American Notes for General Circulation” had been
received with indifference; his wife, Catherine, had made the
unwelcome announcement of a fifth pregnancy. Having accepted an
invitation to speak, on Oct. 5, at a fund-raiser for the Manchester
Athenaeum, Dickens was obliged to return to the city that had, in
1838, “disgusted and astonished” him. Considered “the world’s first
modern industrial city,” Manchester presented the kind of success that
pricked even the most phlegmatic social consciousness, a portrait of
such squalor among factory workers that the two years Friedrich Engels
spent observing its citizens may well have altered history.

DICKENS, galvanized by the response of his Athenaeum audience — “rapt”
— and by a renewed vision of the cost of disdaining the plight of
children, returned to London having conceived what would be the first
project he completed as a whole rather than in serial parts. For six
weeks he worked feverishly, delivering a manuscript to the printer in
late November, for publication a few days before Christmas.
Standiford, the author of four other non­fiction books, tidily
explains the appeal of “A Christmas Carol,” its readership “said at
the turn of the 20th century to be second only to the Bible’s.”
Replacing the slippery Holy Ghost with anthropomorphized spirits, the
infant Christ with a crippled child whose salvation waits on man’s —
not God’s — generosity, Dickens laid claim to a religious festival,
handing it over to the gathering forces of secular humanism. If a
single night’s crash course in man’s power to redress his mistakes and
redeem his future without appealing to an invisible and silent deity
could rehabilitate even so apparently lost a cause as Ebenezer
Scrooge, imagine what it might do for the rest of us!

The popularity of “A Christmas Carol” inspired Dickens to commit
himself to writing another and another holiday book, but “The Chimes,”
“The Cricket on the Hearth” and “The Battle of Life” couldn’t
reproduce the alchemy of their prototype. Too grim, too redux, too
calculated. It was tempting to recreate the success of their
predecessor, but hardly necessary. “The Man Who Invented Christmas”
may not be necessary, either, not with regard to the juggernaut of
Dickens scholarship, but it’s a sweet and sincere addition. A stocking
stuffer for the bookish on your holiday list.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/books/review/Harrison-t.html?ref=books&pagewanted=print
Jerry Kraus
2008-12-07 21:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
December 7, 2008
Holiday Books
Father Christmas
By KATHRYN HARRISON
THE MAN WHO INVENTED CHRISTMAS
How Charles Dickens’s “A Christmas Carol” Rescued His Career and
Revived Our Holiday Spirits
By Les Standiford
241 pp. Crown Publishers. $19.95
Creamed turkey. Curried turkey. Turkey à la king. Turkey potpies.
Turkey macaroni casserole. . . . If only Ebenezer Scrooge had not, in
the excitement of his transformation from miser to humanitarian,
diverged from the traditional Christmas goose to surprise Bob Cratchit
with a turkey “twice the size of Tiny Tim.” But — alas — he did, and
as “A Christmas Carol” approaches its 165th birthday, a Google search
answers the plaint “leftover turkey” with more than 300,000 promises
of recipes to dispatch it. As for England’s goose-raising industry, it
tanked.
Like I said, Jack. BS sells.

Especially elegant BS.
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