Discussion:
Senator Abraham Lincoln, 1855
(too old to reply)
David Tenner
2017-12-15 06:46:17 UTC
Permalink
We have discussed "what would have happened if Abraham Lincoln had been
elected to the US Senate in 1858".rather more than, "what if he had been
elected in 1855?" The 1858 campaign with its famous Lincoln-Douglas
debates has overshadowed the 1855 struggle in the Illinois General
Assembly where Lincoln came within a handful of votes of winning.

The background is as follows: [1] In February 1855 the Illinois General
Assembly was to decide whether to re-elect Senator James Shields, a
Democrat. Though Shields had an antislavery past, he had voted for the
Kansas-Nebraska bill. The legislature had more Democrats than Whigs, but
five of the Democrats were anti-Nebraska, and they held the balance of
power. Their candidate was Lyman Trumbull, who had broken with Douglas
over the Nebraska question. The pro-Nebraska Democrats were divided; those
closest to Douglas favored the re-election of Shields, while others
favored Governor Matteson. Before the vote, the five anti-Nebraska
Democrats caucused and agreed that they would stand by Trumbull and vote
for him as long as he had even a slight chance of being elected. The Whig
caucus agreed to support Abraham Lincoln on the first ballot, but to allow
its members to vote as they pleased on subsequent ballots. The pro-
Nebraska caucus agreed to support Shields on the first ballot, with the
understanding they would switch to Mattteson if Shields' prospects seemed
hopeless. As summarized by Mark R. Krug in *Lyman Trumbull: Conservative
Radical,* pp. 98-99.

"There were one hundred members, and the successful candidate needed
fifty-one votes to be elected. On the first ballot Lincoln received 45
votes, Shields 41, Trumbull 5, and Matteson 1. The second and third
ballots were inconclusive, with the five anti-Nebraska-ites voting for
Trumbull. On the fourth ballot, Trumbull increased his vote to 11 and
Lincoln's total dropped to 33, while the Nebraska group gave its 41 votes
to Shields. The situation did not change on the fifth and sixth ballots.
On the seventh ballot the Nebraska group switched to Matteson and picked
up three votes to a total of 44. On the ninth ballot, Governor Matteson
increased his lead to 47, and most Whigs and Know-Nothings switched from
Lincoln to Trumbull, who received 35 votes. Lincoln got 15 votes. It was
clear that unless the Trumbull and Lincoln forces united, Matteson would
be elected. Lincoln, who was in the lobby, sent his manager, John T.
Stuart, who was Mrs. Lincoln's cousin and his former law partner, to
confer with the anti-Nebraska men to ascertain whether they would consider
voting for him. Stuart was informed by Palmer, Judd, and others that they
could not vote for Lincoln, because they were pledged by the decision of
their caucus to stick to Trumbull and considered themselves to be
instructed by their constituents to vote only for an anti-Nebraska
Democrat. In addition, they felt that since the majority of the
legislature was Democratic, a Democrat should be elected. After hearing
Stuart's report, Lincoln instructed his friends to vote for Trumbull, who
was elected on the tenth ballot after receiving no more than the minimum
of 51 votes. The announcement of Trumbull's election was received with
'prolonged cheers throughout the Hall'..."

Lincoln has been much praised for his "magnanimity" in throwing his
support to Trumbull. William Herndon was to write "The student of history
in after years will be taught to rever [sic] the name of Lincoln for his
exceeding magnanimity in inducting his friends to abandon him at the
critical period and save Trumbull, while he himself disappeared beneath
the waves of defeat..."
https://books.google.com/books?id=NmYqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA46 As Mark Krug (p.
101) noted, this was "touching and poetic" but not accurate: "The fact was
that Lincoln, unless he was prepared to send Matteson to the Senate, had
no choice but to direct his remaining supporters to vote for Trumbull. It
was not magnanimity but a sound assessment of the political situation and
of the prospects for his own future career that made Lincoln do what he
did." (Mrs. Lincoln did not share her husband's "magnanimity" and openly
expressed her resentment of Trumbull. The election ended her friendship
with Julia Jayne Trumbull. The election also caused a life-long animosity
between Trumbull and Judge David Davis, who would be Lincoln's manager at
the 1860 Chicago convention. As he put it, )

Anyway, it is arguable that Trumbull's election was best from the
viewpoint of the future Republican party, because in a state like
Illinois, where Democrats outnumbered Whigs, it was essential that the new
party get Democratic support. (Not that either Lincoln or Trumbull wanted
a new party in 1855--they both hoped that their respective "old" parties
could become the vehicle of anti-Nebraska sentiment.) And it is certainly
true that Trumbull's election upset Douglas more than Lincoln's would
have--especially since Trumbull in 1855 still claimed to be a Democrat.
But what if Lincoln had won? Davis later said that if he had been there,
he could have caused the Whigs to be more stubborn in supporting Lincoln
instead of starting to break for Trumbull, and let's say that the Whig
solidarity combined with the fear of electing a pro-Nebraska man causes
the Anti-Nebraska Democrats' united front to crack--with defections to
Lincoln? So we get Senator Lincoln in 1855.

Of course in that case we would not have had the famous Lincoln-Douglas
debates of OTL. But Lincoln would still debate Douglas--in the Senate!
Indeed, this was what Trumbull did in OTL. In fact, in an 1856 Senate
debate Trumbull even asked Douglas the famous Freeport question Lincoln
was to ask two years later: "Trumbull asked Douglas whether or not he
believed that the people of a territory could lawfully exclude slavery
prior to the formation of a state constitution, and whether or not a
slaveholder had a right to take and hold slaves in a territory in the
absence of municipal law on the subject. Douglas in reply dodged a direct
answer and asserted that only the Supreme Court could decide the
question.38 If Douglas' answer did harm to his Presidential ambitions in
the South, the damage was done in the Senate in 1856." Krug, p. 127. No
doubt Lincoln would have asked Douglas the same question in the Senate. It
was in fact a completely obvious question to ask, since it exposed the
differences between (most) southern and (most) northern supporters of the
Kansas-Nebraska Act.

In OTL, Lincoln got a substantial number of votes for vice-president in
the Republican national convention of 1856. Might he have actually been
nominated for this office in 1856? (If he had been, it is conceivable that
Fremont would have carried Illinois, which he narrowly lost in OTL.) Less
likely but not impossible: A deadlocked Republican national convention
actually nominates Lincoln for president in 1856--and he wins! (He carries
Illinois, and Whigs/Americans are more willing to go along with a
"fusion" anti-Buchanan ticket in PA than in OTL...) Does the South secede?
(Remember that he has not yet made his most "radical" speech, the "House
Divided" speech. And many things that contributed to secession in 1860,
such as Harpers Ferry, had not yet happened.)

In any event, even assuming he is not on the national ticket in 1856,
Lincoln will be a much more familiar national figure in 1860 than he was
in OTL. And it is unclear that he will run for president in 1860--he once
said that he would rather have a full term in the Senate than be
president. But in view of the weaknesses of all the other candidates--
Chase was too radical, Seward was *seen* as too radical and was opposed by
the nativists, Bates was too conservative, etc.--there will be people
urging him to run, and I would hardly count Lincoln out.

(Another question: who will run against Douglas in 1858?..)

[1] See http://hdl.handle.net/2027/spo.2629860.0014.203
for a fuller account.
--
David Tenner
***@ameritech.net
jerry kraus
2017-12-15 14:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Tenner
We have discussed "what would have happened if Abraham Lincoln had been
elected to the US Senate in 1858".rather more than, "what if he had been
elected in 1855?" The 1858 campaign with its famous Lincoln-Douglas
debates has overshadowed the 1855 struggle in the Illinois General
Assembly where Lincoln came within a handful of votes of winning.
The background is as follows: [1] In February 1855 the Illinois General
Assembly was to decide whether to re-elect Senator James Shields, a
Democrat. Though Shields had an antislavery past, he had voted for the
Kansas-Nebraska bill. The legislature had more Democrats than Whigs, but
five of the Democrats were anti-Nebraska, and they held the balance of
power. Their candidate was Lyman Trumbull, who had broken with Douglas
over the Nebraska question. The pro-Nebraska Democrats were divided; those
closest to Douglas favored the re-election of Shields, while others
favored Governor Matteson. Before the vote, the five anti-Nebraska
Democrats caucused and agreed that they would stand by Trumbull and vote
for him as long as he had even a slight chance of being elected. The Whig
caucus agreed to support Abraham Lincoln on the first ballot, but to allow
its members to vote as they pleased on subsequent ballots. The pro-
Nebraska caucus agreed to support Shields on the first ballot, with the
understanding they would switch to Mattteson if Shields' prospects seemed
hopeless. As summarized by Mark R. Krug in *Lyman Trumbull: Conservative
Radical,* pp. 98-99.
"There were one hundred members, and the successful candidate needed
fifty-one votes to be elected. On the first ballot Lincoln received 45
votes, Shields 41, Trumbull 5, and Matteson 1. The second and third
ballots were inconclusive, with the five anti-Nebraska-ites voting for
Trumbull. On the fourth ballot, Trumbull increased his vote to 11 and
Lincoln's total dropped to 33, while the Nebraska group gave its 41 votes
to Shields. The situation did not change on the fifth and sixth ballots.
On the seventh ballot the Nebraska group switched to Matteson and picked
up three votes to a total of 44. On the ninth ballot, Governor Matteson
increased his lead to 47, and most Whigs and Know-Nothings switched from
Lincoln to Trumbull, who received 35 votes. Lincoln got 15 votes. It was
clear that unless the Trumbull and Lincoln forces united, Matteson would
be elected. Lincoln, who was in the lobby, sent his manager, John T.
Stuart, who was Mrs. Lincoln's cousin and his former law partner, to
confer with the anti-Nebraska men to ascertain whether they would consider
voting for him. Stuart was informed by Palmer, Judd, and others that they
could not vote for Lincoln, because they were pledged by the decision of
their caucus to stick to Trumbull and considered themselves to be
instructed by their constituents to vote only for an anti-Nebraska
Democrat. In addition, they felt that since the majority of the
legislature was Democratic, a Democrat should be elected. After hearing
Stuart's report, Lincoln instructed his friends to vote for Trumbull, who
was elected on the tenth ballot after receiving no more than the minimum
of 51 votes. The announcement of Trumbull's election was received with
'prolonged cheers throughout the Hall'..."
Lincoln has been much praised for his "magnanimity" in throwing his
support to Trumbull. William Herndon was to write "The student of history
in after years will be taught to rever [sic] the name of Lincoln for his
exceeding magnanimity in inducting his friends to abandon him at the
critical period and save Trumbull, while he himself disappeared beneath
the waves of defeat..."
https://books.google.com/books?id=NmYqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA46 As Mark Krug (p.
101) noted, this was "touching and poetic" but not accurate: "The fact was
that Lincoln, unless he was prepared to send Matteson to the Senate, had
no choice but to direct his remaining supporters to vote for Trumbull. It
was not magnanimity but a sound assessment of the political situation and
of the prospects for his own future career that made Lincoln do what he
did." (Mrs. Lincoln did not share her husband's "magnanimity" and openly
expressed her resentment of Trumbull. The election ended her friendship
with Julia Jayne Trumbull. The election also caused a life-long animosity
between Trumbull and Judge David Davis, who would be Lincoln's manager at
the 1860 Chicago convention. As he put it, )
Anyway, it is arguable that Trumbull's election was best from the
viewpoint of the future Republican party, because in a state like
Illinois, where Democrats outnumbered Whigs, it was essential that the new
party get Democratic support. (Not that either Lincoln or Trumbull wanted
a new party in 1855--they both hoped that their respective "old" parties
could become the vehicle of anti-Nebraska sentiment.) And it is certainly
true that Trumbull's election upset Douglas more than Lincoln's would
have--especially since Trumbull in 1855 still claimed to be a Democrat.
But what if Lincoln had won? Davis later said that if he had been there,
he could have caused the Whigs to be more stubborn in supporting Lincoln
instead of starting to break for Trumbull, and let's say that the Whig
solidarity combined with the fear of electing a pro-Nebraska man causes
the Anti-Nebraska Democrats' united front to crack--with defections to
Lincoln? So we get Senator Lincoln in 1855.
Of course in that case we would not have had the famous Lincoln-Douglas
debates of OTL. But Lincoln would still debate Douglas--in the Senate!
Indeed, this was what Trumbull did in OTL. In fact, in an 1856 Senate
debate Trumbull even asked Douglas the famous Freeport question Lincoln
was to ask two years later: "Trumbull asked Douglas whether or not he
believed that the people of a territory could lawfully exclude slavery
prior to the formation of a state constitution, and whether or not a
slaveholder had a right to take and hold slaves in a territory in the
absence of municipal law on the subject. Douglas in reply dodged a direct
answer and asserted that only the Supreme Court could decide the
question.38 If Douglas' answer did harm to his Presidential ambitions in
the South, the damage was done in the Senate in 1856." Krug, p. 127. No
doubt Lincoln would have asked Douglas the same question in the Senate. It
was in fact a completely obvious question to ask, since it exposed the
differences between (most) southern and (most) northern supporters of the
Kansas-Nebraska Act.
In OTL, Lincoln got a substantial number of votes for vice-president in
the Republican national convention of 1856. Might he have actually been
nominated for this office in 1856? (If he had been, it is conceivable that
Fremont would have carried Illinois, which he narrowly lost in OTL.) Less
likely but not impossible: A deadlocked Republican national convention
actually nominates Lincoln for president in 1856--and he wins! (He carries
Illinois, and Whigs/Americans are more willing to go along with a
"fusion" anti-Buchanan ticket in PA than in OTL...) Does the South secede?
(Remember that he has not yet made his most "radical" speech, the "House
Divided" speech. And many things that contributed to secession in 1860,
such as Harpers Ferry, had not yet happened.)
In any event, even assuming he is not on the national ticket in 1856,
Lincoln will be a much more familiar national figure in 1860 than he was
in OTL. And it is unclear that he will run for president in 1860--he once
said that he would rather have a full term in the Senate than be
president. But in view of the weaknesses of all the other candidates--
Chase was too radical, Seward was *seen* as too radical and was opposed by
the nativists, Bates was too conservative, etc.--there will be people
urging him to run, and I would hardly count Lincoln out.
(Another question: who will run against Douglas in 1858?..)
[1] See http://hdl.handle.net/2027/spo.2629860.0014.203
for a fuller account.
--
David Tenner
Lincoln would have lived a lot longer, and the country would probably not have had as catastrophic a civil war. I'm reasonably convinced Lincoln's manic-depression played a role in exacerbating the intensity of the conflict. If he sticks to the Senate, we'll have a President who either will not generate an immediate secession of the Southern States, or, we'll have one who responds with sufficient force, quickly enough, to crush the secession in its infancy! Bear in mind, Adolf Hitler was also a manic-depressive.
Rich Rostrom
2017-12-23 16:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Tenner
In any event, even assuming he is not on the national ticket in 1856,
Lincoln will be a much more familiar national figure in 1860 than he was
in OTL.
Which could limit his chances. He was something of a
dark horse OTL. According to Bruce Catton, when the
site of the 1860 RNC was discussed, an Illinois man
suggested Chicago because Illinois had no contender
for the nomination. Lincoln's managers in Chicago
packed the convention gallery with Lincoln rooters
(and thus excluded Seward's cheering section); how
much this affected the actual voting is unknown, but
whatever effect it had would not have happened in
Indianapolis or Boston.

If Lincoln was a Senator, with a prominent record,
Seward's managers would not be so overconfident,
and very probably could nail down the nomination.
Post by David Tenner
And it is unclear that he will run for president in 1860--he once
said that he would rather have a full term in the Senate than be
president.
But as of 1860, his full would be coming to an end.
Post by David Tenner
(Another question: who will run against Douglas in 1858?..)
Trumbull? He lacked Lincoln's oratory, but he could
have a broader political appeal, and might beat Douglas.
--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.
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