Discussion:
WI: A U.S. President is impeached, convicted, and sent to prison for life
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jerry kraus
2017-06-12 13:36:18 UTC
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Jean-Jacques Rousseau tells us "Representative Democracy is a contradiction in terms." In other words, all elected officials are simply temporary dictators, with no real incentive to serve the will of the people, at all. I'm inclined to agree with this. Elected representatives, with few exceptions, serve their own interests, to the total exclusion of the interests of their actual electorate.

Now, in the U.S., with its strong traditions of freedom, individualism and independence, bordering on total anarchy, the only way to get the people to tolerate these "temporary dictators" they elect, is profound and intense disinformation and hypocrisy. Hence, the hagiographical treatment of U.S. presidents. All U.S. Presidents are portrayed as virtual saints, and paragons of perfect virtue, by most popular U.S. historians, in any case. For, if we acknowledged what these elected officials were actually doing, the entire system would collapse. So, even a total waste of skin like John F. Kennedy is still, quite frequently, treated with awe and reverence.

This was brought most forcefully to mind by a recent conversation with a friend of mine in which she described the current President, Donald Trump, as "The anointed one, by God". I'm not joking, that is exactly, what she said, and, she was quite serious about it. So, I got to thinking about that, a bit. Now, in the Christian tradition, anyway, "Those anointed by God", quite frequently, have a very special function. Their purpose is to suffer for the sins of mankind, to be martyred, even crucified. And, given the number of powerful enemies Donald Trump is indeed making currently, at all points along the political spectrum, I believe it is very possible indeed, that crucifixion, probably figuratively speaking, could well be in his future. He might well be impeached, convicted, and sent to prison for life, if, as is likely, the Democrats retake control of Congress.

So, what would be the effects now, or at any time in American history, in the past, if a president were impeached, convicted and sent to prison for life? I would suggest that this precedent would make it quite impossible for representative democracy to continue in the U.S. Immediately, everyone would want ALL elected representatives sent to prison for life! So, I suspect, the system would have to be replaced by some form of direct democracy, perhaps, currently, all citizens proposing and voting on their own laws and bills, on the internet. In the past, pre-internet, I'm not really sure what would have happened, but, I suspect the system would have been very severely shaken, indeed.

Thoughts?
The Old Man
2017-06-12 16:34:42 UTC
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Post by jerry kraus
Jean-Jacques Rousseau tells us "Representative Democracy is a contradiction in terms." In other words, all elected officials are simply temporary dictators, with no real incentive to serve the will of the people, at all. I'm inclined to agree with this. Elected representatives, with few exceptions, serve their own interests, to the total exclusion of the interests of their actual electorate.
Now, in the U.S., with its strong traditions of freedom, individualism and independence, bordering on total anarchy, the only way to get the people to tolerate these "temporary dictators" they elect, is profound and intense disinformation and hypocrisy. Hence, the hagiographical treatment of U.S. presidents. All U.S. Presidents are portrayed as virtual saints, and paragons of perfect virtue, by most popular U.S. historians, in any case. For, if we acknowledged what these elected officials were actually doing, the entire system would collapse. So, even a total waste of skin like John F. Kennedy is still, quite frequently, treated with awe and reverence.
This was brought most forcefully to mind by a recent conversation with a friend of mine in which she described the current President, Donald Trump, as "The anointed one, by God". I'm not joking, that is exactly, what she said, and, she was quite serious about it. So, I got to thinking about that, a bit. Now, in the Christian tradition, anyway, "Those anointed by God", quite frequently, have a very special function. Their purpose is to suffer for the sins of mankind, to be martyred, even crucified. And, given the number of powerful enemies Donald Trump is indeed making currently, at all points along the political spectrum, I believe it is very possible indeed, that crucifixion, probably figuratively speaking, could well be in his future. He might well be impeached, convicted, and sent to prison for life, if, as is likely, the Democrats retake control of Congress.
So, what would be the effects now, or at any time in American history, in the past, if a president were impeached, convicted and sent to prison for life? I would suggest that this precedent would make it quite impossible for representative democracy to continue in the U.S. Immediately, everyone would want ALL elected representatives sent to prison for life! So, I suspect, the system would have to be replaced by some form of direct democracy, perhaps, currently, all citizens proposing and voting on their own laws and bills, on the internet. In the past, pre-internet, I'm not really sure what would have happened, but, I suspect the system would have been very severely shaken, indeed.
Thoughts?
Impeached --- Most Likely
Convicted --- Quite Possibly
Sent to Jail for Life --- Unlikely, unless he really DID shoot someone
in broad daylight in the middle of Times Square
as he talked about during the campaign. Even
he's NOT that stupid.

Regards,
John Braungart
jerry kraus
2017-06-12 20:06:24 UTC
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Post by The Old Man
Post by jerry kraus
Jean-Jacques Rousseau tells us "Representative Democracy is a contradiction in terms." In other words, all elected officials are simply temporary dictators, with no real incentive to serve the will of the people, at all. I'm inclined to agree with this. Elected representatives, with few exceptions, serve their own interests, to the total exclusion of the interests of their actual electorate.
Now, in the U.S., with its strong traditions of freedom, individualism and independence, bordering on total anarchy, the only way to get the people to tolerate these "temporary dictators" they elect, is profound and intense disinformation and hypocrisy. Hence, the hagiographical treatment of U.S. presidents. All U.S. Presidents are portrayed as virtual saints, and paragons of perfect virtue, by most popular U.S. historians, in any case. For, if we acknowledged what these elected officials were actually doing, the entire system would collapse. So, even a total waste of skin like John F. Kennedy is still, quite frequently, treated with awe and reverence.
This was brought most forcefully to mind by a recent conversation with a friend of mine in which she described the current President, Donald Trump, as "The anointed one, by God". I'm not joking, that is exactly, what she said, and, she was quite serious about it. So, I got to thinking about that, a bit. Now, in the Christian tradition, anyway, "Those anointed by God", quite frequently, have a very special function. Their purpose is to suffer for the sins of mankind, to be martyred, even crucified. And, given the number of powerful enemies Donald Trump is indeed making currently, at all points along the political spectrum, I believe it is very possible indeed, that crucifixion, probably figuratively speaking, could well be in his future. He might well be impeached, convicted, and sent to prison for life, if, as is likely, the Democrats retake control of Congress.
So, what would be the effects now, or at any time in American history, in the past, if a president were impeached, convicted and sent to prison for life? I would suggest that this precedent would make it quite impossible for representative democracy to continue in the U.S. Immediately, everyone would want ALL elected representatives sent to prison for life! So, I suspect, the system would have to be replaced by some form of direct democracy, perhaps, currently, all citizens proposing and voting on their own laws and bills, on the internet. In the past, pre-internet, I'm not really sure what would have happened, but, I suspect the system would have been very severely shaken, indeed.
Thoughts?
Impeached --- Most Likely
Convicted --- Quite Possibly
Sent to Jail for Life --- Unlikely, unless he really DID shoot someone
in broad daylight in the middle of Times Square
as he talked about during the campaign. Even
he's NOT that stupid.
Regards,
John Braungart
Just sending a U.S. President to prison might be sufficient to bring representative democracy crashing down. After all, henceforward, all congressional representatives would be attempting to send all opposite party presidents to prison at every opportunity, which would probably make the entire system impractical, and unworkable. So, Trump may indeed have a useful role to play here.
The Old Man
2017-06-12 20:35:16 UTC
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Post by jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Jean-Jacques Rousseau tells us "Representative Democracy is a
contradiction in terms." In other words, all elected officials are
simply temporary dictators, with no real incentive to serve the will
of the people, at all. I'm inclined to agree with this. Elected
representatives, with few exceptions, serve their own interests, to
the total exclusion of the interests of their actual electorate.
Now, in the U.S., with its strong traditions of freedom, individualism
and independence, bordering on total anarchy, the only way to get the
people to tolerate these "temporary dictators" they elect, is profound
and intense disinformation and hypocrisy. Hence, the hagiographical
treatment of U.S. presidents. All U.S. Presidents are portrayed as
virtual saints, and paragons of perfect virtue, by most popular U.S.
historians, in any case. For, if we acknowledged what these elected
officials were actually doing, the entire system would collapse. So,
even a total waste of skin like John F. Kennedy is still, quite
frequently, treated with awe and reverence.
This was brought most forcefully to mind by a recent conversation with
a friend of mine in which she described the current President, Donald
Trump, as "The anointed one, by God". I'm not joking, that is exactly,
what she said, and, she was quite serious about it. So, I got to
thinking about that, a bit. Now, in the Christian tradition,
anyway, "Those anointed by God", quite frequently, have a very special
function. Their purpose is to suffer for the sins of mankind, to be
martyred, even crucified. And, given the number of powerful enemies
Donald Trump is indeed making currently, at all points along the
political spectrum, I believe it is very possible indeed, that
crucifixion, probably figuratively speaking, could well be in his future.
He might well be impeached, convicted, and sent to prison for life if,
as is likely, the Democrats retake control of Congress.
So, what would be the effects now, or at any time in American history,
in the past, if a president were impeached, convicted and sent to prison
for life? I would suggest that this precedent would make it quite
impossible for representative democracy to continue in the U.S.
Immediately, everyone would want ALL elected representatives sent to
prison for life! So, I suspect, the system would have to be replaced by
some form of direct democracy, perhaps, currently, all citizens proposing
and voting on their own laws and bills, on the internet. In the past, pre-
internet, I'm not really sure what would have happened, but, I suspect the
system would have been very severely shaken, indeed.
Thoughts?
Impeached --- Most Likely
Convicted --- Quite Possibly
Sent to Jail for Life --- Unlikely, unless he really DID shoot someone
in broad daylight in the middle of Times Square
as he talked about during the campaign. Even
he's NOT that stupid.
Just sending a U.S. President to prison might be sufficient to bring
representative democracy crashing down. After all, henceforward, all
congressional representatives would be attempting to send all opposite
party presidents to prison at every opportunity, which would probably make
the entire system impractical, and unworkable. So, Trump may indeed have a
useful role to play here.
I think that you might see another scenario, The voters MIGHT look to keep the President and the Congressional representatives from different parties to keep them honest - literally. On the other hand, both parties will look for a clean sweep to give them a free hand. But when the other party eventually gets back into power, anyone who dipped into the cookie jar is going to be looking for trouble, so I think that by and large, most of the politicians will follow the straight and narrow.
The biggest punishment though, will be the loss of face, after being outed as dishonest. Some of those idiots might even take a long walk off a short pier.

Regards,
John Braungart
SolomonW
2017-06-13 10:06:16 UTC
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Post by jerry kraus
So, what would be the effects now, or at any time in American history, in the past, if a president were impeached, convicted and sent to prison for life? I would suggest that this precedent would make it quite impossible for representative democracy to continue in the U.S. Immediately, everyone would want ALL elected representatives sent to prison for life! So, I suspect, the system would have to be replaced by some form of direct democracy, perhaps, currently, all citizens proposing and voting on their own laws and bills, on the internet. In the past, pre-internet, I'm not really sure what would have happened, but, I suspect the system would have been very severely shaken, indeed.
Although not a US president, Manuel Antonio Noriega Moreno seems to fit the
requirement well.
jerry kraus
2017-06-13 13:12:10 UTC
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Post by SolomonW
Post by jerry kraus
So, what would be the effects now, or at any time in American history, in the past, if a president were impeached, convicted and sent to prison for life? I would suggest that this precedent would make it quite impossible for representative democracy to continue in the U.S. Immediately, everyone would want ALL elected representatives sent to prison for life! So, I suspect, the system would have to be replaced by some form of direct democracy, perhaps, currently, all citizens proposing and voting on their own laws and bills, on the internet. In the past, pre-internet, I'm not really sure what would have happened, but, I suspect the system would have been very severely shaken, indeed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by SolomonW
Although not a US president, Manuel Antonio Noriega Moreno seems to fit the
requirement well.
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
The Old Man
2017-06-13 20:43:35 UTC
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Post by jerry kraus
Post by SolomonW
Post by jerry kraus
So, what would be the effects now, or at any time in American history, in the past, if a president were impeached, convicted and sent to prison for life? I would suggest that this precedent would make it quite impossible for representative democracy to continue in the U.S. Immediately, everyone would want ALL elected representatives sent to prison for life! So, I suspect, the system would have to be replaced by some form of direct democracy, perhaps, currently, all citizens proposing and voting on their own laws and bills, on the internet. In the past, pre-internet, I'm not really sure what would have happened, but, I suspect the system would have been very severely shaken, indeed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by SolomonW
Although not a US president, Manuel Antonio Noriega Moreno seems to fit the
requirement well.
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
<<<<< PLONK!!!>>>>>
The Horny Goat
2017-06-14 00:25:13 UTC
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On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT), jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
Boy you really kept up the rhythm! I don't think anybody has kept up
that rate of insults since the Monty Python "Philosophers' Song!"
Dimensional Traveler
2017-06-14 01:02:44 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT), jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
Boy you really kept up the rhythm! I don't think anybody has kept up
that rate of insults since the Monty Python "Philosophers' Song!"
One of many reasons so many of us have kill-filed him.
--
"That's my secret, Captain: I'm always angry."
Dean
2017-06-14 11:36:17 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT), jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
Boy you really kept up the rhythm! I don't think anybody has kept up
that rate of insults since the Monty Python "Philosophers' Song!"
And it's interesting how he used "we" and "our". I guess that's standard when the world revolves around him.
jerry kraus
2017-06-14 13:05:40 UTC
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Post by Dean
Post by The Horny Goat
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT), jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
Boy you really kept up the rhythm! I don't think anybody has kept up
that rate of insults since the Monty Python "Philosophers' Song!"
And it's interesting how he used "we" and "our". I guess that's standard when the world revolves around him.
Hey, Dean, checked the news this morning? A shooter seriously injured the Republican Whip and shot up an entire softball team of Republican Congressmen at practice, including his security detail. The purpose of the shooter was, and I quote, "To kill as many Republican memebers of Congress as possible." You can only defy the people's justice so far, you know. By, the way "kill-filing" me won't reduce the incidence of these types of attacks! Don't bother shooting the messenger buddies, it won't change anything, at all!
pyotr filipivich
2017-06-14 15:48:53 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT), jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
Boy you really kept up the rhythm! I don't think anybody has kept up
that rate of insults since the Monty Python "Philosophers' Song!"
That song really wasn't much of an insult. OTOH, this apology
is:

"We would like to apologize for the way in which politicians are
represented in this programme. It was never our intention to imply
that politicians are weak-kneed, political time-servers who are more
concerned with their personal vendettas and private power struggles
than the problems of government, nor to suggest at any point that they
sacrifice their credibility by denying free debate on vital matters in
the mistaken impression that party unity comes before the well-being
of the people they supposedly represent, nor to imply at any stage
that they are squabbling little toadies without an ounce of concern
for the vital social problems of today. Nor indeed do we intend that
viewers should consider them as crabby ulcerous little self-seeking
vermin with furry legs and an excessive addiction to alcohol and
certain explicit sexual practices which some people might find
offensive. We are sorry if this impression has come across."
==> Monty Python script
--
pyotr filipivich.
For Sale: Uncirculated Roman Drachmas, feature Julius Ceaser's Portrait,
several dated 44 BCE. Comes with Certificate of Authenticity.
jerry kraus
2017-06-14 18:28:04 UTC
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Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by The Horny Goat
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT), jerry kraus
Post by jerry kraus
Indeed, he did. And, was he really any worse than many of the U.S. Presidents throughout history? It's a very interesting question, I think. Washington was a liar and a thief throughout his entire life. Jefferson was a pedophile and a pervert. Lincoln was a manic depressive who personally caused the Civil War. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist poseur who managed to turn Japan into America's greatest enemy. FDR's communist leanings caused the Cold War. And those were our "great" Presidents! We all know that JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Bill Clinton and George Bush Jr. were total scum! We all know that Truman and Ford were non-entities, and that Jimmy Carter still is one. So, what are we left with? The senile actor Ronald Reagan, begin run by his petty tyrant "hell-cat of the Navy" wife Nancy??!!
Boy you really kept up the rhythm! I don't think anybody has kept up
that rate of insults since the Monty Python "Philosophers' Song!"
That song really wasn't much of an insult. OTOH, this apology
"We would like to apologize for the way in which politicians are
represented in this programme. It was never our intention to imply
that politicians are weak-kneed, political time-servers who are more
concerned with their personal vendettas and private power struggles
than the problems of government, nor to suggest at any point that they
sacrifice their credibility by denying free debate on vital matters in
the mistaken impression that party unity comes before the well-being
of the people they supposedly represent, nor to imply at any stage
that they are squabbling little toadies without an ounce of concern
for the vital social problems of today. Nor indeed do we intend that
viewers should consider them as crabby ulcerous little self-seeking
vermin with furry legs and an excessive addiction to alcohol and
certain explicit sexual practices which some people might find
offensive. We are sorry if this impression has come across."
==> Monty Python script
--
pyotr filipivich.
For Sale: Uncirculated Roman Drachmas, feature Julius Ceaser's Portrait,
several dated 44 BCE. Comes with Certificate of Authenticity.
Or, how about Monty Python's "upper class twit of the year" sketch for Theresa May, the soon to be ex-prime minister of Great Britain, and the Tories and their wealth supporters, in general?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Class_Twit_of_the_Year

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