Discussion:
AHC: Can the USA enter WWI in 1915 or 1916, yet the Germans do not lose?
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Rob
2017-07-22 18:32:22 UTC
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I figure this is a hard challenge. Maybe impossible, maybe not, but surely interesting.
The Old Man
2017-07-22 19:24:21 UTC
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Post by Rob
I figure this is a hard challenge. Maybe impossible, maybe not, but surely interesting.
Off the top of my head, give the German leadership some diplomatic brains and somehow get they to enlist the United States as an ally. Until about 1916, there were a lot of folks of German descent or German ex-pats who still felt for the Old Country, possibly a fairly large minority. If the Germans can pull that off via maybe proving that the Zimmermann Telegram is a phony, or maintaining restrictions on their submarine attacks (go after British warships only, no passenger liners and only British cargo transports for a start) and possibly have the British do something stupid like having their ships seen flying American flags or attacking German shipping by Americans might be a good start, but I'm pretty sure that it's ASB territory.

Regards,
John Braungart
Rich Rostrom
2017-07-23 19:51:34 UTC
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Post by The Old Man
If the Germans can pull that off via maybe proving
that the Zimmermann Telegram is a phony
Except that the Zimmerman Telegram was entirely authentic,
and the British had irrefutable proof of that. The ZT was
transmitted in cipher using a US diplomatic cable which
ran to the US embassy in Denmark. Since all cables from
Germany to America had been cut by the Allies, the US allowed
Germany to use its cable as a courtesy, for diplomatic
purposes only, and with all messages transmitted in clear
by American operators. (The Germans schmoozed the US
Ambassador in Germany into allowing the ZT to go in cipher.)

What the Germans did not know was that the US cable passed
through a relay station at Land's End in England, where it was
monitored by British intelligence. The British were reading
the diplomatic cipher used (there may have been some additional
crptanalysis required).

So the British could show the US the ciphertext (which the US
could verify from its own records), the cleartext, and the
cipher keys and procedure.
--
The real Velvet Revolution - and the would-be hijacker.

http://originalvelvetrevolution.com
The Old Man
2017-07-24 15:15:54 UTC
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Post by Rich Rostrom
Post by The Old Man
If the Germans can pull that off via maybe proving
that the Zimmermann Telegram is a phony
Except that the Zimmerman Telegram was entirely authentic,
and the British had irrefutable proof of that. The ZT was
transmitted in cipher using a US diplomatic cable which
ran to the US embassy in Denmark. Since all cables from
Germany to America had been cut by the Allies, the US allowed
Germany to use its cable as a courtesy, for diplomatic
purposes only, and with all messages transmitted in clear
by American operators. (The Germans schmoozed the US
Ambassador in Germany into allowing the ZT to go in cipher.)
What the Germans did not know was that the US cable passed
through a relay station at Land's End in England, where it was
monitored by British intelligence. The British were reading
the diplomatic cipher used (there may have been some additional
crptanalysis required).
So the British could show the US the ciphertext (which the US
could verify from its own records), the cleartext, and the
cipher keys and procedure.
--
The real Velvet Revolution - and the would-be hijacker.
http://originalvelvetrevolution.com
I'll go back to my original posit and say "what if the Germans get some diplomatic brains" and avoid the Zimmermann Telegram (and unrestricted submarine warfare)?
They could still send a diplomatic courier to offer those terms directly or not at all, your choice.

Regards,
John Braungart

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