Discussion:
AHC: Iranian-Speaking South Russia/Ukraine
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David Tenner
2017-06-01 07:44:53 UTC
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You are millions. We are hordes and hordes and hordes.
Take us on--just try!
Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, we are Asians -
With slanted, greedy eyes!

Alexander Blok, "Scythians," 1918.

Much of what is now southern Russia and Ukraine was once dominated by Iranian
tribes--Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans. In modern times, all that is left of
them are the Ossetians. (At least that's all that is left linguistically--of
course some East Slavs may be descended in part from Slavified Iranian-
speakers.) Is there any plausible way to have a much larger Iranian-speaking
presence in Russia and Ukraine lasting into modern times?
--
David Tenner
***@ameritech.net
Alex Milman
2017-06-01 16:08:19 UTC
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Post by David Tenner
You are millions. We are hordes and hordes and hordes.
Take us on--just try!
Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, we are Asians -
With slanted, greedy eyes!
Alexander Blok, "Scythians," 1918.
When he was writing this he definitely did not look at the mirror: not
what you'd call a typical Asian with the slanted eyes. :-)

And the English translation is sometimes goes far away from the original:

"We saddle horses wild and shy,
As in the fields so playfully they swerve.
Though they be stubborn, yet we press their thigh
Until they willingly and meekly serve."

Actually, it was:

"We have a habit of breaking the heavy backbones of the playing high-spirited
horses and of subduing the ill-tempered female slaves."

None of which can be associated with an author with any degree of a
believability. :-)
Post by David Tenner
Much of what is now southern Russia and Ukraine was once dominated by Iranian
tribes--Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans. In modern times, all that is left of
them are the Ossetians. (At least that's all that is left linguistically--of
course some East Slavs may be descended in part from Slavified Iranian-
speakers.) Is there any plausible way to have a much larger Iranian-speaking
presence in Russia and Ukraine lasting into modern times?
Find a way to preserve all these Iranian tribes and not to mix them with the
newcomers or, even better, let the newcomers to adopt their language.
David Tenner
2017-06-05 18:00:48 UTC
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Post by Alex Milman
Post by David Tenner
You are millions. We are hordes and hordes and hordes.
Take us on--just try!
Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, we are Asians -
With slanted, greedy eyes!
Alexander Blok, "Scythians," 1918.
When he was writing this he definitely did not look at the mirror: not
what you'd call a typical Asian with the slanted eyes. :-)
ObWI: Blok doesn't die (of syphilis?) in 1921.
--
David Tenner
***@ameritech.net
Alex Milman
2017-06-05 18:33:46 UTC
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Post by David Tenner
Post by Alex Milman
Post by David Tenner
You are millions. We are hordes and hordes and hordes.
Take us on--just try!
Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, we are Asians -
With slanted, greedy eyes!
Alexander Blok, "Scythians," 1918.
When he was writing this he definitely did not look at the mirror: not
what you'd call a typical Asian with the slanted eyes. :-)
ObWI: Blok doesn't die (of syphilis?) in 1921.
AFAIK, the official reason was asthma + hear failure (aggravated by starvation,
which was more or less officially recognized).

To address your idea, not long before the death he got an official permission
to travel to Finland for medical treatment. If this happened and his health
improved, there are 2 possible continuations of the story:

1st, he emigrates. This brings up the question of his future career in
emigration. He could make it reasonably OK but this was not a guarantee.
He could or could not end up returning into the SU in which case his future
fate would depend on how much would he be needed as a "showcase" and how
flexible was his backbone so it could be in a wide range between a princely
living (as A.N.Tolstoy - a complete scumbag) and execution (as happened to
many lesser figures returned to the SU).

2nd, upon recuperation he returns. Then it is all up to the "need" and
flexibility (see above). Out of the poets of his rank (well, it is quite
difficult to assign ranks in a poetry) and social group Pasternak did reasonably
OK (mostly as a translator), Akhmatova lived in poverty (again, mostly as a
translator), Tsvetaeva ended up committing a suicide, N. Gumilev was executed,
Mandelstam died in Gulag. To extend "social group", Esenin and Mayakovsky
ended up committing suicides.

Now, in OTL Block demonstrated certain political flexibility by writing "12"
but this was clearly not enough to endear him to the Bolsheviks. Could he go
MUCH further along that way? I have no idea.

SolomonW
2017-06-02 08:36:04 UTC
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Post by David Tenner
You are millions. We are hordes and hordes and hordes.
Take us on--just try!
Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, we are Asians -
With slanted, greedy eyes!
Alexander Blok, "Scythians," 1918.
Much of what is now southern Russia and Ukraine was once dominated by Iranian
tribes--Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans. In modern times, all that is left of
them are the Ossetians. (At least that's all that is left linguistically--of
course some East Slavs may be descended in part from Slavified Iranian-
speakers.) Is there any plausible way to have a much larger Iranian-speaking
presence in Russia and Ukraine lasting into modern times?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetians
There maybe many more then people state.


One fasinating question that somethings crops up was whether Stalin was
from a Russian speaking Ossetian family.
Yusuf B Gursey
2017-06-04 23:42:12 UTC
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Post by David Tenner
You are millions. We are hordes and hordes and hordes.
Take us on--just try!
Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, we are Asians -
With slanted, greedy eyes!
Alexander Blok, "Scythians," 1918.
Much of what is now southern Russia and Ukraine was once dominated by Iranian
tribes--Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans. In modern times, all that is left of
them are the Ossetians. (At least that's all that is left linguistically--of
course some East Slavs may be descended in part from Slavified Iranian-
speakers.) Is there any plausible way to have a much larger Iranian-speaking
presence in Russia and Ukraine lasting into modern times?
Have less Hunno-Turkic people come, and maybe no Mongol invasion.

In Iranian speaking state, Alania, existed until the Mongols.
Post by David Tenner
--
David Tenner
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